DP4 in pro mix situation is a joke

[amplidood]

I'm currently in the middle of a mix for a major record release (the first single from the record as well) and I have to tell you that DP4 has been nothing but a nightmare in this process. MOTU stuff in general has been. We're trying to sync DP to RADARS via MTP AV's. The sync performance of DP is absolutely terrible. In OS 10.3.8/4.52 we cannot get the sync to be stable. Also, DP drops and floats tracks in the middle of playback, drops sync entirely and then locks up again late, stutters during dense track sections, and is generally not stable. No wonder so many pro studios go to Pro Tools. DP by itself is fine, but forget trying to make it work with other stuff.

[Gibble]

In my opinion: I just finished a search of all of amplidood's posts and I find a strange similarity, the majority of them contain messages of FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt), which is a classic method used by some companies (eg MS) to sow distrust of a competitors products. Very few of the posts have anything that is constructive to say. If you are actually experiencing the problems that you claim you are then your system (hardware and software) is severely messed up. And I'll finish this with a little gem that you left on one of your recent rants....

Peace

[Tim]

Originally posted by amplidood:
No wonder so many pro studios go to Pro Tools.

Then go for it!
Knock yourself out.

[studiodog]

Yeah, I have to agree...

All of the money that I have, 99% of it I made with Performer or the DP version, I'll just give it up because I can't understand how to use the software...
NOT

I'm so tired of people bitching about the software when most of the ones with problems HAVE PROBLEMS BECAUSE THEY DON"T KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING !!

Would you complain about your CAR crashing if you didn't know how to drive it ?

Hell yeah you would... If you were stupid....

Learn B4U Complain

Yeah, I is nice ain't i.........

[hsten]

I have been mixing records in DP (since version 3, also using MTPAV and 1296) and it has been a blessing for me. I find it rock solid (even though the transition to OSX was a bit uncomfortable for a while). I think all systems need to be set up properly, and if you do so you should be able to get professional results. There are pros and cons with all systems and you have to find out what will suit your needs. To state that DP is a joke in a professional setting is a statement that is untrue and false, which I am sure several other users will agree upon. My clients (Warner and Universal are some of them) have been very happy and DP has never caused severe problems for me or my clients. I do however feel sorry for your problems as I am sure are very real. However there are several issues beside DP4 that can cause your sync problems. I am not saying that it is not DP, but sometimes syncproblems can be very hard to sort out on any system as there are so many variables. I do hope you find out what is causing your problems and post in in this forum.

[Splinter]

I don't know anything about Amplidood's posts, but I can corroborate his findings with 4.52. I have been a long time user of DP and have used it for years to sync DA38s via a DTP with few issues. I recently posted that 4.52 has major sync issues and upon further examination found it to be the nightmare Amplidood describes. If I go back to 4.12 - no problems with the exact same setup. Move to 4.52 and tracks are completely out of whack. It has nothing to do with "know-how."

This is a major bug in 4.52. I don't know why this was not an immediate fix considering a huge number of MOTU's DP users work with film and video. I would be outraged if that was my primary line of work. As it was, in the discovery process, I lost tons of hours and had to redo many, many hours of work as a result. I was not a happy camper.

My workaround was to load my tracks into DP in 4.12 and then mix in 4.52 for the ADC. If it weren't for ADC I'd just stay in 4.12. I can't vouch for 4.5 and its sync ability since it is no longer loaded on my computer.

[tommymandel]

dood, have you tried unchecking all the beat detection background processing options? - - -
Mine's a different and much more responsive program since i did. (but I run 4.52 on an older PB, and 3.11 on my 'big' PCI system where sync is an issue.) - - -
I just think that it would be a quick way to rule out (or in) a major bit of uncertainty.

[Timeline]

The description of "shuttering" makes me think you have drive speed issues and it's not the fault of DP.

Speed in disk access is absolutely the most important function of a properly syncing DAW.

I can't tell you how many times I have reached limits on SATA drives and had to transfer to my scsi 15K spin 320 drives and all that •••• disappears.

I would suggest that if you want to Radar the mix you simply take the raw files from MOTU, import them and start over or buy scsi drives as described herin. You obviously don't have enough speed in your disk drive systems and computer.

I'm not trying to sound like a hard ass here and I understand why you ended up in this situation.

Many times recently I have added just a few too many tracks and plugs and everything goes south. We all do it because were trying to build the best record we can and that's just the way it is.

Rethink your plugs and tracks, comp a bit and see if you can regain control of your system.

Cheers,
Gary Brandt
TL

ADDED: YOu have 100MB limits on the FW 800 port. That is your problem not to mention a dual 1ghz machine is woefully inadequate.

<small>[ March 27, 2005, 09:29 AM: Message edited by: Timeline ]</small>

[hsten]

Just to clarify my earlier statement; Amplidood‘s original posting stated that "DP4 in pro mix situation is a joke". I find this not to be the case. Splinters observation of sync problems in 4.52 might very well be the case and it would be great to hear from others working in 4.52 if they experience similar syncproblems. Splinters findings seems to be directly connected to 4.52 and this is a serious issue that needs to be verified. Did you get in touch with MOTU on this Splinter? Anyway, my point is that DP has a great trackrecord concerning syncing to various systems with the MTP interface, and it is therefore more productive to try to narrow down the problems into specifics (versions of DP/OS/other external machines in sync/settings and so on) instead of stating that DP is flawed in this respect.

[Splinter]

No, I haven't reported it to MOTU yet.

I built a template in 4.52 and tried loading in tracks with sample accurate sync via my DTP. I use to be able to do this flawlessly, but in 4.52 the tracks are inconsistantly shifted out of time. Sometimes they are ahead, sometimes behind by several seconds. Where not terribly obvious I tried rerecording the track and it wouldn't line up sample for sample as it should and has in the past. I disabled all Beat Detective functions and ADC, but no luck.

I exported this template as a 4.12 file. I didn't change a thing to my setup and it worked flawlessly. I've been working this way for years and know how to set this up, but 4.52 is broken in this regard. I'm running a Dual 1.8 G5 with a 15K Glyph on a PCI-X SCSI card so there should be no issues there. It's just flat out broken. Everything physically appears to lock, but DP is off in its own world.

It is an extreme exageration to say DP cannot perform professional work - it does all the time - but it does have serious issues in this regard and needs to be fixed.

It would be more accurate to say MOTU lacks professional support and needs to get there ass in gear to get this fixed. As much as I love DP it does get quite old waiting for MOTU to fix their broken software while they continue to load it up with new features that don't work (i.e. BDE which has turned out to be a complete disappointment). I can only wait until they integrate the pitch correction. Dear God, how big are they gonna make this monster creating dozens of new bugs while leaving the rest of the app unfixed? I just want a DAW that does what it is supposed to with a reasonable amount of stability and reliability, not broken and disfunctional. This certainly is the criteria for a pro app in a pro environment. DP fits that criteria, most of the time (at least as much as PT if your system is setup right) but they've got to get the bugs out!

[dave pine]

>>>ADDED: YOu have 100MB limits on the FW 800 port. That is your problem not to mention a dual 1ghz machine is woefully inadequate.<<<

not true, i'm running dual 1ghz w/ 1.25gig of ram and it works great. i don't usually go beyond 46 tracks though.

[Timeline]

This depends on SR. He has 2 drives connected as well. Better check his original post.

Also, He's running 4.52 which is a hog next to 4.12.

All of these things make a big difference.

[Splinter]

Originally posted by Timeline:
Also, He's running 4.52 which is a hog next to 4.12.

True, true. That same temp I mentioned earlier required about 20% more processing power in 4.52 than in 4.12. This is probably related to the ADC, but the dynamic management doesn't help and causes the dreaded spiking CPU issue... again. Nice. Doesn't MOTU test this stuff before they put it out? Don't answer that!

[dave pine]

i'm on 4.52, 10.3.8, with 3 hard drives and uad card...never came close to craping out the cpu.

[el gennaro]

DP4.52 Has Problems
There is no denying it.
So just defend away..........................