iMac: Intial impression after 2 hours

MegaDPuser · Post by **MegaDPuser** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 5:25 pm

This thing ROCKS !!!!!

Dp5.11 / OS 10.4.9 / Peak LE / Battery 3
iMac 24", 2.33 Ghz, 2 Gig RAM, other items standard

First test: a project with 22 tracks of audio, plus around 10 instances of Waves effects total (renverb, eq, etc.)
It crashed my G4 (system resources used: 100 %), and my disgust with not being able to run that project is what led to the iMac. Even my 8-10 track pieces were running with choppy screen wipers, etc.
Keeping in mind that Waves isn't installed yet, so, so far this is just about the audio - with 22 tracks, I show the system using maybe 10-15% of resources at buffer size=128, and barely a green indicator at all at buffer size=512, perhaps 4-5 %. I put everything on the screen I could possibly think of with a moving part - sequence editor, MIDI editors, etc. Nothing made a dent in performance - all the moving things on the screen are smooth and functioning as they should. This thing is wicked fast, at least from my G4 perspective.

Again, I am yet to load and run Waves, or to set up my VI's and run them. So this is just a subjective take on the iMac running non-DSP processed audio tracks (but lots of 'em). Things will inevitably slow down once Waves and VI's are in the game.

So far, very impressive speed and performance.

The 24" monitor is like, well, if I had to die tomorrow, I would die knowing that I had achieved the ultimate peak in personal possessions, the 24" iMac screen. This thing completely blows my mind. It is not just the size. It is the brightness and clarity. I have never seen anything like it attached to a computer before.

Now, on to Waves...

Shooshie · Post by **Shooshie** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 5:32 pm

Good luck with the Waves side of things. If you follow their instructions very carefully (presuming you find the instructions) it will work fine. Installation, that is. Installation and authorization, to be more clear.

I have not been able to get the L3 MultiMaximizer to pass AU examination on Digital Performer. Everything else works, I think, but that one just won't.

Shooshie

Frodo · Post by **Frodo** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 5:43 pm

Excellent report! It sounds like the kind of performance we've all been waiting for.

It's remarkable (to me) that Universal Binary is working as well as it is on both Intel and PPC at this time. It hasn't been the easiest transition for anyone, but the performance benefits appear to have been worth the agony.

The iMac certainly manages to avoid some of the hardware (ie: finanical) hurdles of the towers where PCIe slots and additional RAM allowances add up quickly. The included monitor is certainly a major convenience and money saver where a tower is overkill. This new series of iMacs have really come into their own, where iMacs of just over a year ago were just barely able to handle a modicum of plugins within a DAW.

I'm really happy to know that those who really don't need the benefits of an extensive tower and its peripherals can now reap enough performance out of an iMac with room to spare.

MegaDPuser · Post by **MegaDPuser** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 6:03 pm

Frodo, if I had another $k or 3 to spend on it, I would have gotten the tower. It's just that when I added it all up, customizing a MacPro to my specs, it was something like $5,500 and another $1,000 for the roughly-equivalent monitor I got on the iMac. The iMac provides a nice package for $2,400 (including 2.33 and 2G RAM upgrades); I would not have bought it in the pre-core 2 duo days, I really think the Intel move makes the iMac worthwhile - and possible for moderately serious audio usage. That said, the iMac could really, seriously use more expandability. ONE firewire 400 port? One firewire 800 port? What the heck?! Gee, thanks Apple for the two USB1.0 ports, those are really helpful in 2007. Actually, I knew all that going in, so it's not like I'm surprised or disappointed. I just think in this age of digital audio and video, the back of this thing should look like a big piece of swisscheese, not a smooth flat surface with a couple of holes at the bottom just in case you decide to hook up a peripheral. But I guess that is the marketing angle - if they gave iMac users 10 ports to play around with, eventually they'd be cannibalizing the lower end of Mac Pro sales, rather than carving out a successful prosumer niche and forcing real pros into the Mac Pro line. I've always been a proud Prosumer, and so far the iMac looks like it was made for me and my ilk - except for the lack of ports. I really think this thing should have 2-3 FW800 ports, on separate busses.

Meanwhile, I am totally striking out with the Waves install so far. Everything's loaded and installed, and DP5 doesn't recognize Waves as even being in the same room with it. Back to the online manuals...

Frodo · Post by **Frodo** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 6:56 pm

MegaDPuser wrote:... I really think this thing should have 2-3 FW800 ports, on separate busses.

LOL!! Not even the top model MacPro towers have that. For whatever reason, Apple introduced FW, removed it from iPods, and then kept BOTH 400 and 800 ports on the same 33Mhz bus. It's not clear what their reasoning might be-- but if it's a cost issue of adding descrete busses for each FW port, then FW appears to be in a strange sort of purgatory right now: it's clearly not worth it for Apple to make independent FW busses.

FW went "so far" as a cross platform standard-- Windows Vista has abandoned support for networking via FW, for example, proclaiming that it was not "popular", although ports remain on PCs out of clear basic necessity. Adopting and developing cross platforming hardware formats such as USB and FW has given Apple a piece of the other 95% of the PC pie-- but who knows at this point if Apple has sort of tripped over its own innovative feet in this area.

Perhaps better FW support is to come. Perhaps the ports that remain are more or less obligatory because FW hard drives, audio interfaces, and other peripherals have sort of backed into this format as a standard with high hopes. That there are SO many FW peripherals out there competing for a single 33Mhz bus-- it makes one struggle to connect the dots.

PCIe for towers is the most notable upgrade where throughput is concerned.... but this leaves laptops, minis, and iMacs aside.

In any case, there appears to be a Mac out there to suit the needs of anyone who wants one at a diversity of price points. I'm just delighted to have heard so many good reports about the new CPU.

Phil O · Post by **Phil O** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 7:47 pm

Worked all day tracking in the studio today. Mac Pro, 10.4.9, DP 5.11. Drums, bass, keys, guitar, vocals. Not a single problem. Slick as cow •••• in an April shower. I'm a happy camper.

MegaD, congrats on the new machine. You're gonna love it.

Phil

4ace · Post by **4ace** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 8:04 pm

I've got the 20" 2.0ghz core duo and i just recently maxed out the ram at 2gigs.......this thing SMOKES!!!

I'm extremely happy with the results.Older projects that i had trouble running are smooth as butter.

I would have loved to go with the macpro but my budget got in the way.

These Imacs are a really great value for the dollar.The performance is outstanding.

MegaDPuser · Post by **MegaDPuser** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 8:48 pm

Just wanted to add I've given up on Waves for the night.

The iMac rocks. Soooooo fast and pretty.

Waves is such a hassle. I've downloaded, installed, and authorized their plugs. The iLok is authorized and running fine. DP doesn't recognize whatever Waves installed on my computer, at all. When I load DP, it takes a quick look at the MAS 5.2 Waves shell and then moves along, not even trying to load the Waves plugs. I'm gonna call Waves tomorrow to see what's going on (that oughtta be fun). The Waves site says it does not support Digital Performer on Intel Mac. Hmmm...does that mean I get my $1,200 back?

Waves is like a beautiful woman with a bad personality. You put up with a lot more than you otherwise might, and sometimes you wonder if you'd be better off with non-supermodel Jane down the block who's amiable and easy to hang out with.

Frodo · Post by **Frodo** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 9:00 pm

MegaDPuser wrote:The Waves site says it does not support Digital Performer on Intel Mac.

It actually SAYS that? Wow!!! I don't use Waves, but "hmmm" is right.

Could this be a 10.4.9 issue? I thought some people had gotten Waves going on their Intels in either 10.4.8 or by deleting MAS and just using AU?

MegaDPuser · Post by **MegaDPuser** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 9:08 pm

Could this be a 10.4.9 issue?

From the Waves website:

Mac OS 10.4.9 is not supported and causes Waves plug-ins to malfunction.
Do not install Mac OS 10.4.9 until further notice.

I thought I could sneak by and just load it and get some results, even if some of them were to "malfunction", as Waves puts it. But apparently, it is more severe than that - they don't load at all.

The Waves site does not say specifically that it doesn't support DP on MacIntel. What it does say is that it supports only two platforms, Logic and PT, at this time.

I would love to hear from any MacIntel users who have Waves running, even if imperfectly.

Shooshie · Post by **Shooshie** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:20 pm

MegaDPuser wrote:Just wanted to add I've given up on Waves for the night.

The iMac rocks. Soooooo fast and pretty.

Waves is such a hassle. I've downloaded, installed, and authorized their plugs. The iLok is authorized and running fine. DP doesn't recognize whatever Waves installed on my computer, at all. When I load DP, it takes a quick look at the MAS 5.2 Waves shell and then moves along, not even trying to load the Waves plugs. I'm gonna call Waves tomorrow to see what's going on (that oughtta be fun). The Waves site says it does not support Digital Performer on Intel Mac. Hmmm...does that mean I get my $1,200 back?

Waves is like a beautiful woman with a bad personality. You put up with a lot more than you otherwise might, and sometimes you wonder if you'd be better off with non-supermodel Jane down the block who's amiable and easy to hang out with.

Good analogy.

If you're using 10.4.9, you're just out of luck. I'm in 10.4.8, and I can still use Waves plugins. I don't plan to upgrade until Waves gets their act together and delivers our plugins.

Meanwhile, I've loaded the AU plugins. That means I have to download version 5.9.1 for Logic. I can install that just fine, and DP uses it. The only one it won't authorize is the L3 MultiMaximizer and its derivative, the L3LL MM.

Once you go to your account page in the Waves Website, you'll see the plugins you've authorized in the past, and to the left is a list of menu options. It's hard even to figure out which one to choose. Somewhere is a selection for finding help. When you find the right page, it is quite detailed and tells what to do.

You have to authorize the 5.9 enabler, then you have to authorize the iLok, and... I don't know what all. It took me all night the first time after upgrading to the Mac Pro tower.

I'll stop here before I confuse you even more! But one more thing: their tech support can be very helpful. Don't hesitate to call them.

Shooshie

Shooshie · Post by **Shooshie** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:27 pm

Frodo wrote:
MegaDPuser wrote:The Waves site says it does not support Digital Performer on Intel Mac.
It actually SAYS that? Wow!!! I don't use Waves, but "hmmm" is right.

Could this be a 10.4.9 issue? I thought some people had gotten Waves going on their Intels in either 10.4.8 or by deleting MAS and just using AU?

Those are two separate issues, and their website does say both. In one place it says they do not support DP. But prominently for EVERYONE, they say they do not support 10.4.9.

I talked with them earlier today (Thursday) and they said they just finished getting the VST plugins out the door for Cubase. They were devoting themselves full time to Digital Performer and MAS when this 10.4.9 thing came up. Now they've got to fix THAT first. So, it may be a while before we get our plugins fully compatible again. But I was assured that it was going to happen. He said "just not in the next 2 weeks!" I'm guessing this summer -- perhaps July -- will be about the time they deliver it.

I asked them about the WUP plan and if they planned to extend our coverage for this period of non-functionality. The tech support guy was not authorized to make such decisions, but he forwarded my letter (which is why he called me) to the other departments. We'll see how they respond.

Needless to say, they're very upset by all this. He said that MAS turned out to be much more complicated than they expected.

Meanwhile, I've got over 150 Waves plugins working just fine in DP 5.11 using AU in OSX 10.4.8. The only one that will not load is my favorite: the L3 Multimaximizer.

Shooshie

MegaDPuser · Post by **MegaDPuser** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 11:30 pm

Shooshie, your post was helpful, because it confirmed what I was already starting to ponder: download the Logic plug-ins and feed 'em to DP as AU's. That made intuitive sense to me but I hadn't tried it yet. Guess I'll find out tomorrow, and then I'll call Waves on Monday. I am really glad to hear that it's worked for someone else. Of course, 10.4.8 vs. 10.4.9 might be the dealbreaker, I'll let you know how it turns out. I'm thinking about loading my old trusty 10.4.6 until Waves gets this straightened out.

Saintmatthew · Post by **Saintmatthew** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 6:31 am

where iMacs of just over a year ago were just barely able to handle a modicum of plugins within a DAW.

Actually, my G5 imac is nearing 3 years of age and is still holding it's own. I'd say it runs 5.11 under 10.4 better than any version of 4.x ran on 10.3. I keep drooling at the Intels as I've seen how well they perform but I couldn't justify getting one THIS year as mine is handeling a project with 9 sequences (songs), each either 24 or 48 tracks with comps and EQs, etc without any problems. The imac/828mkII combo, in terms of semi-portability (good "on location" machine) and performance is pretty bloody awesome.

jlaudon · Post by **jlaudon** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 6:45 am

I might be missing something, but why does Waves even need to do MAS versions, if the AU versions can work (at least eventually) in DP?

I use the AU versions of all my Waves plugins, and things have been much more stable (and when I used the MAS versions, it would take forever to scan the MAS versions of the plugs if I took them out and reinstalled them).