be carefull buying MOTU products for use with windows

[JohanBlome]

Just want to add that my Traveller have worked well in 2 of my laptops (Acer Aspire 3800 and Dell Inspiron 9400) using the build in firewire and my stationary pc (Intel p4 3200), recording 16 tracks for hours without problems.

I did have problem when my brother took the Traveller to be used with his laptop with crackling sound all over the place, but this could be a problem with his laptop.
/Johan

[tk]

Please try the solution at http://thoughtyard.com/twiki/bin/view/M ... TechReview.

I originally had terrible clicks and pops and other problems, now everything works great.

[calaveras]

you know, I am a gigantic dummy. I totally forgot about the xp SP2 firewire problem. AND I'M A COMPUTER DORK! I guess it slipped my mind because I had been using Win 2k SP4 instead of XP for so long. (really, Win2k sp4 is actaully superior to XP sp2 in some areas it only lacks restore points and the ability to use 1394 as a networking medium).
BTW the microsoft article could'nt be harder to read. I read it 3 times before I finally realized I had to go into device manager, look up the hardware key then search for that to find the proper directory in the registry. They should put that part BEFORE the part about changing the registry. Some guys might not backup their registry first and might not have restore points turned on!
BTW anybody know of a 1394 speed monitoring utility? I can olnly find sata and USB speed monitors.

[schnelsr]

I had this problem. I tried everything until it worked. The solution? Do the SP2 to SP1 driver backrev then if it still does not work, UPDATE YOUR BIOS!

The BIOS supplied with fairly new machines is set up for the crappy SP2 driver and WILL NOT RUN AT S400. AT ALL. NOT EVEN A LITTLE. Go to http://www.phoenix.com/en/Home/default.htm if the manufacturer does not offer an update (the update for VISTA readiness is a good one but I don't know if Vista will work. The new BIOS will work for either XP or VISTA). Follow all the instructions carefully. Make a bootable disk (floppy or CD) if offered the chance. Plug a loptop into the wall during the process. Doing this wrong will make your machine an expensive paperweight.

My ULTRALITE is flyin' on XP-SP2!!!

[arth]

The BIOS supplied with fairly new machines is set up for the crappy SP2 driver and WILL NOT RUN AT S400. AT ALL. NOT EVEN A LITTLE.

Also keep in mind that most PCs will only have an 1394a controller, no matter whether the port is 6 or 9-pin, in which case it's silly to revert to SP1 (or SP1 drivers) and try to set S800 speed.
Just install http://support.microsoft.com/kb/885222 and you'll be back to S400 as default, which should be more than enough bandwidth for a MOTU firewire device.

From what I can tell from various "fixes" people have published, like turning down the graphics acceleration, the problem is likely bus latency. Other devices on the system grab the bus for too long, and the firewire controller doesn't get it often enough. Setting S800/S400 instead of the default S400 will then only make this problem slightly worse, cause the controller then will need interrupt time more often.
The best advice I can give is to first of all disable all devices you don't use in the Windows device manager. And physically disconnect devices when you don't use them, including USB devices.
Then make sure you disable "1394 Net Adapter" (which also shows up as "1394 Connection" under Network Conections). With this device enabled (which is default), Windows polls the Firewire chain every now and then to check whether you've hooked up a network capable device. This adds a substantial amount of latency at odd intervals.

[calaveras]

Then make sure you disable "1394 Net Adapter" (which also shows up as "1394 Connection" under Network Conections). With this device enabled (which is default), Windows polls the Firewire chain every now and then to check whether you've hooked up a network capable device. This adds a substantial amount of latency at odd intervals.

Amen to that! I find it very annoying, no infuriating! that most all XP PC's come with 1394 networking enabled right out of the box. HAs anybody every used 1394 networking? I'm sure its great for video servers or something, but pretty much everybody is on wifi of some kind, or if they are using cabled connections, they just get some pre connectored cat5 at home depot or radio shack. Heck any interface made in the last 5 years is autonegotiating so you dont even have to worry about crossover cables. Pretty much every one of my friends that has tried to set up a home studio on a firewire box has been bitten by this bug. I get called, I turn off all the garbage on their Dell/HP/Compaq and they are astounded at how much faster and more stable their DAW is. I need to start charging for this!
And its not stupid people that have this issue. I was at a bigwig lawyer's condo last week (she works for an online auction site) she had no idea about indexing, 1394 networking, IRQs, TI/Lucent, automatic updates (should be off! You want to decide what MS puts on your PC, and when)
Her $3000 computer couldnt record an acpustic guitar and a vocal without making awful computer noises. I swear I though she was going to do me on the kitchen floor when I fixed it.
People like us are the ones astute enough to get this far. This isnt even an official MOTU forum! Motu doesnt have one!

[sleddog]

Also check out KB904412 which fixes a problem with firewire control. It's subtle, but it helped. In particular the WDM driver seems very robust and fast. I was able to run about 50 tracks and 12 effects with 1.3 ms effective latency. Note that I also use a PCIe firewire card from SIIG that I'm very happy with. It works better than my earlier PCI based card.

[srenity_sam]

Anyone else have this same combination, and working? Not me!
Judging from the many "issues" about MOTU/PC combos, one would conclude MOTU should stick w/Mac's. Oh, I've done some stuff, but not without some goofy glitch or shut-down error about every time I turn my system on.

See signature showing my gear. Fairly new stuff...I started this around 12/06. Have had mostly head/heartaches with goofy glitches the entire time. The Sonica computer is being sent back to them a SECOND time. I don't know if they'll let me have it back, because they've been telling me that MOTU's drivers are problematic, and keep trying to convince me to switch to RME. But I've been stubborn, 'cause I like the Traveler layout vs the FF400, and don't wanna pop the extra $$ for a FF800.

You cannot get MOTU to respond (like others have noted), and Cakewalk Sonar techs are making suggestions that fix nothing either. Frankly, the following things make it LOOK like all 3 digital items have some problem:

1. 5+ times now, the CPU's will stutter...freezing the audio (if playing), mouse cursor, typing, EVERYTHING for 1/4 second about every 1 second. Shutting down Sonar or turning off the Traveler does NOT fix it. Only a total reboot does. Is this the computer?

2. The Audio Dropout popup will happen EVEN if I just loaded the first project and have NOT hit play yet...and also when audio is playing. Closing it allows me to proceed, but it's annoying. Changing buffer size doesn't help. Very intermittent...different projects. Is this the MOTU drivers?

3. Sonar's TTS-1 softsynth's HELP file cannot be access via the synth's interface HELP button (ERROR; Cannot find Help Files)...but are intact and where they belong (broken link?). Sonar's Pentagon-1 softsynth has terrible glitch problems on certain patches causing Sonar's meters to peg at 99.5db and stay there until the Audio Engine AND the synth are both disengaged...it's very scary! And, there is NO External Encoder Config Utility under Sonar's Tools menu...it's supposed to be! Could this and all the 20+ SONARPDR.exe shutdown faults in kernel32.dll be a defective Sonar installation DVD?

Anyway, it's been months now, and we've tried everything. So the Sonica president wants their system back, and if they cannot get it to work with the Traveler, Pres. Maureen Wilder has threatened to refund my money. Where in the hell am I going to find another 2U rack system with those powerful guts for <$1800?!? I've looked everywhere online, and have only seen 4U size available, and for more $$. OK, ok...I know I'm venting...but I've been thru the wringer . Who knows if all this madness could've been avoided if I had just gone with an RME interface in the first place. Sonica assures me it could have.

So I just figured I'd put my 2 cents in. I will repost an update once I actually have a working system (hopefully this year!)...

[calaveras]

honestly I would say its that you are using X64. It is possible to get things done on x64, but you have to acknowledge that you are on the bleeding edge. Most of the Vista PC's I have seen in retail are not even 64 enabled. Yeah its a shame and it sucks. AMD had 64 bit CPUs out like what 3 years ago? Xp x64 has been out for about 2 years, but most of the developers decided to skip x64 and shoot for vista. Some drivers, but not all, will work for both.
If you want it to work I'd suggest getting XP Pro, doing the firewire fixes, turning off stuff that isnt necessary, and you should be good to go. I have Sonar 6PE working with my 828MKII on 3 unrelated PCs; Lenovo notebook, Nforce 2 PC, Nforce 3 ultra based PC. Ones socket A, ones dual core opteron, ones celeron M.
I tried to get x64 to be happy on my opteron based daw, but it was too much trouble (basically the 32 bit and 64 bit partitions were messing with each other).
Probably not what you wanted to hear.

[arth]

Amen to that! I find it very annoying, no infuriating! that most all XP PC's come with 1394 networking enabled right out of the box. HAs anybody every used 1394 networking? I'm sure its great for video servers or something,

1394 networking is even discontinued and unsupported by Microsoft for more than two years now:

http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/system/bu ... _1394.mspx

Still, it's enabled by default, and they haven't sent out a patch that disables it, because there's reportedly a guy named Shawn in Oklahoma that uses it...

[n2mpujack]

Can anyone here recommend a specific, currently available, PCMCIA card with the TI chipset? I've looked at newegg.com and they list a few cards. Go to the various manufacturer's sites, and not one says what chipset they use. I'm currently working on a Toshiba Satellite 1955 laptop (2.53GHz P4, 1 gig ram, Windows XP Home, SP1) that has 3 USB ports and one native FW400 port (which has a TI chipset). My current sound I/O is an Edirol UA1000 USB2.0 box. I'd like to change to the 828mk2. I've heard of clicking problems with the 828 USB version on Windows, so am looking at the fw version. The fw port is currently occupied feeding a TC Electronics Poco FW box and a Glyph external drive. Have tried a Traveler in the past with less than stellar results on the same chain as the Poco and Glyph. Would a fw hub work at all, or is that another trip down disaster lane? Tnx for any help.
PS: I only have room in the rack for a single space unit, so it's the 828.

[schnelsr]

I went to coolgear.com (on 03-05-2007) and bought the 2P-PCMCIA-F2 two-port cardbus PCMCIA 1394 Firewire Adapter. It has the TI chipset and works great with my Toshiba 105 (1.7 GHz Celeron M). It was also only $19.99.

I ran into the Rice Crispy syndrome too (running a Sound Blaster External USB) but, by playing the service Nazi and killing CD/DVD services and Fast User Switching, it went away. Now I can record eight tracks (MOTU Ultralight sending via USB to an external hard disk) with a bunch of effects and six outputs active with no extraneous noise and CPU running less than 50% per task manager...

[rwafish]

New here so hello fellow MOTU heads.

Just have to say that this is the first time I've been here in three years since owning an 828mkII (on three different "off the rack" PC's) and only came here today for a gander after checking if there are any driver updates on MOTU's website.

NEVER had any problems with my little baby and I consider it one of my more inspired purchases.

I'm running logic platinum 5 on it (i know I should catch up but I love it too) and often run about 20 channels of audio/MIDI (in varying combinations), with multiple effects etc and the 828 just shrugs it all off.

I have to agree with the people who have said that it is gonna be the pc or human error that is the fault rather than the motu. And if you want to make sure something is plug and play, then you have to make sure you've got the right connections on your pc to start with. (no offence).

[DanE62]

I am using the Ultralite and I haven't had any problem/s. Although, I was sure nervous reading these messages on this and other forums after I had already ordered the hardware.

In my opinion, I still do not trust AMD processors to be as compatible with a lot of the audio hardware on the market. From my observation, many individuals who have problems seem to have AMD processors. Yes, I know there are many more possible varialbles, but I believe this is one snag.

I did some homework and these are my specs.

Windows XP SP2
Intel P4 3.06 GHz
1x SATA 80 GIG hrd. drv.
1x SATA 120 GIG hrd. drv.
1x 160 GIG external hrd. drv. 7200 rpm
4 GIG RAM
ADS Tech. Pyro PCI 64 3-port FireWire card (TI Chipset)
NVIDIA Quadro FX500 AGP video card

Software:

EastWest Symphonic Orchestra Gold XP
EastWest Colossus
EastWest Stormdrum
Submersible Music Drumcore
Cakewalk Sonar 5.2
Steinberg Wavelab
Finale 2006

I have my router/modem/wireless Linksys Wireless-G Cable Gateway and McAfee's antivirus software on while using the Ultralite box.

I haven't had any problem using up to 50 MIDI and/or audio tracks. I can load one of my orchestra templates which has 98 tracks and still no snaps, crackles or pops.

I should also add, I have e-mailed MOTU a few times for technical support and they have replied within 24 hours. Although, I have to admit their firmware update/s lack info. regarding fixes or increased performance. Their manuals also need to be improved.

Now, for you potential buyers, make sure you do your homework and review your sytem specs. and compatability requirements and you should be okay.

[calaveras]

I have systems with Intel and AMD chips. There is nothing about the AMD chips that makes them more or less suitable for DAWS. Likewise for Intel. That being said, some developers only support Intel configurations becasue it is the easy way out. Intel chips on an intel chipset are a known quantity. If you develop on the 945/65/75 architecture and then say you only do tech support for intel based workstations it cuts your tech support costs about in half.
Also, admitedly, AMD stuff can be kind of gamer driven. Especially looking at the motherboards on that side, I think a lot of AMD's market share was and continues to be the gamer/OC-er. But dont forget that AMD opteron based servers have gained a lot of market share over Intel, and continue to be a phenomenal value. (thats what I rock anyway).
Also be aware that Microsoft develops on AMD (or at least advertised that they do)