drum editing - is this bug still happening, a concern?

[kenoflife]

I'm just starting with DP, wanting to get into drum editing...and
came across this at the bigbluelounge.com....


http://www.bigbluelounge.com/forums/vie ... d98d7a0412


Anyone else have this problem?

[Johneecatt]

I'm just starting with DP, wanting to get into drum editing...and
came across this at the bigbluelounge.com....


http://www.bigbluelounge.com/forums/vie ... d98d7a0412


Anyone else have this problem?

Yes - it is a bug in ALL versions that is known to MOTU and they will not do anything about it. I talked to tech support and they said, "Maybe you just don't know how to work the software." So I sent them a file I'd been working on, and their reply was, "Oh, I see. I'll have the developers take a look at that." I called back a few times to see if the developers had ever taken a look. Each time, the response was, "Not yet, but we will."

I finally gave up. So - it is a bug, and you'll just have to live with it.

[kenoflife]

So...Random notes disappear when making a drum track?

And this is a bug that Motu refuses to fix?

And I just cracked open this software yesterday to begin learning - and
the first thing I want to do is make drum tracks - and it won't work?

OK - Motu Administrator - I'd like to hear about this?!

[chrispick]

And I just cracked open this software yesterday to begin learning - and the first thing I want to do is make drum tracks - and it won't work?

You can still make drum tracks. I do it everyday.

I use the Track Overview and Graphic Editor windows to MIDI-track and edit MIDI-generated drum parts. I actually think it's easier and more readily adjustable than the Drum Editor (which I've used and haven't had any problems with, incidentally -- not to say there isn't a bug; I just haven't run across it). I tap out drum part with my controller keyboard or Trigger Finger pad -- just like I do with keyboard parts -- then fine-tune the MIDI in the Graphic Editor window which is designed specifically for such tasks.

This is mostly my preference. I'm not a big fan of drum editor motifs for most percussion tracking.

[Tritonemusic]

I tap out drum part with my controller keyboard or Trigger Finger pad --

Chrispick,

How do you like the Trigger Finger? Is it sensitive enough to play super-fast tabla parts with your fingers? I'm in desperate need of something like that. It would be nice not to have to spend over a grand for something like Roland makes.

[kenoflife]

so...it's a question of which windows are being used?
and the bug (randomly disappearing MIDI map of snare/bass drum) might
show up on the drum editor, but not somewhere else?
do you think I can spend the $$ on BFD and have confidence that it will work stellarly with DP (at least on DP's end)?

[chrispick]

How do you like the Trigger Finger? Is it sensitive enough to play super-fast tabla parts with your fingers? I'm in desperate need of something like that. It would be nice not to have to spend over a grand for something like Roland makes.

It's great for electronic drum kinds of parts (e.g., something out of Battery or Guru or similar). It's really pretty plug-and-play.

I don't like it as much for tracking real drum sample part (e.g., BFD). It works, but matching velocity sensitivity -- I don't know -- for some reason tapping a keyboard works a little better for me.

All and all, I'd recommend it, especially if you can get a deal on one.

Don't know if that helps or not.

[Tritonemusic]

Thanks, that does help. I'll see if I can try one in a Guitar Center; if not, I'll just take a chance and order one. Thanks.

[chrispick]

so...it's a question of which windows are being used?
and the bug (randomly disappearing MIDI map of snare/bass drum) might
show up on the drum editor, but not somewhere else?
do you think I can spend the $$ on BFD and have confidence that it will work stellarly with DP (at least on DP's end)?

Absolutely. BFD is my go-to real drum sample module. Works great in and out of DP.

Yeah, like I said, I've never run into this Drum Editor bug, but that's likely because I don't use the Drum Editor window to MIDI-track.

The Tracks Overview and Graphic Editor window are rock-solid for MIDI tracking and editing, respectively.

FWIW, you can also track and edit MIDI in the Sequence Editor window as well. When it comes to MIDI stuff, DP offers more than one approach.

[Johneecatt]

Two things - first of all. I use BFD with a Trigger Finger and I like it a lot. It will play as fast as my fingers will go. I have even tried using sticks as a test...and it works, although the pads are too small for that. But I've done some fills like that.

And second, I still use the drum editor, and I like the drum editor....it just makes sense to me somehow. The random problems only occur with the pencil tool or the brush tool (and only in the drum editor). So - I just don't use those tools, and we get along fine.

But all in all, I REALLY wish they'd fix it.

[kenoflife]

There's a new BFD coming along....BFD 2?

Wonder if I should be waiting for that (late Spring?)....
and also, do you BFD users find plenty there to use
without purchasing the adjunct kits?

thanks

[Johneecatt]

There's a new BFD coming along....BFD 2?

Wonder if I should be waiting for that (late Spring?)....
and also, do you BFD users find plenty there to use
without purchasing the adjunct kits?

thanks

The biggest disadvantage with waiting, is that you don't get to use it now.

I've made up a few custom kits and I use those most of the time, and not nearly everything that's there......so I don't really miss the adjunct kits, but I'm sure curiosity will get me to spring for it someday.

[Dubnick]

This bug and Motu's blatant denial of it got me sooooooo angry I actually stopped using DP all together for a bit (not long after purchasing it) and invested in Logic Pro, in spite of it's crappy GUI, steep learning curve and some missing "Pro" features (like a Beat Detective-like tool and the ability to route audio from track to track without a third-party app). I've since come back to DP 5.11 a bit, primarily for, ironically, programming and tracking BFD All (the current RTAS version must have a memory leak, cause the graphics meltdown when used in PT LE). I've come to, well, put up with the fact that there are certain very annoying long term bugs, the kind that no other company would let stand, that MOTU will simply deny till the cows come home. Thankfully, all of them can be worked around, even though there is no reason they should be. In the case of the drum editor, it is the only window in which data disappears - it is unexeptable that any "Pro" app lose data altogether for no reason, but you can rest assured that it won't lose your MIDI data if you edit in the MIDI or sequence window. Also, if you can simulate a lot of Drum Editor window's ease by splitting the MIDI track by pitch to it's own track.

It's a real shame - if DP were purchased by a more proactive company when it comes to actual support for thier software, it would be the Pro Tools killer for me - it's as easy and intuitive as PT, has virtually the same feature set (in some areas, it has more impressive features) and even has PDC. If DP were handed off to a more attentive or maybe capable parent company (I'd have to assume they are probably very understaffed) that fixed the long term basic bugs, brought the quality of the stock compressors in line, qualitywise, with, say, the MasterWorks EQ and changed the panning to the 100 Left/100 Right template, I would sell Logic Pro in a heartbeat, and only use PT to export sessions/tracks. But alas. Unfortunately, none of this is likely to happen, which is kind of tragic. Oh well - I'll just wait it out - either Logic 8 will catch up to Pro Tools in terms of audio editing and automation ease, or Digidesign will smarten up and allow for plugin-delay-compensation on native systems.

[chrispick]

do you BFD users find plenty there to use without purchasing the adjunct kits?

I think so. You get a bunch of kits, each with distinct sounds, right out of the box. A Ludwig, a Slingerland, a DW, an Ayotte and others. Plus, you get a few extra snares and kicks.

I'd say, if you want a module that'll give you great studio-recorded sample that'll approximate real kit playing, get BFD now. You won't regret it.

Something to consider: The samples in BFD are clean, not processed. So, they're built to EQed and compressed by you, the mixer.

To add: I've picked up the Funk & Jazz expansion and love it, although I rarely use it for funk or jazz sounds.

[chrispick]

you can simulate a lot of Drum Editor window's ease by splitting the MIDI track by pitch to it's own track.

This is what I do essentially. I build out MIDI tracks for kick, snare, hihat, etc. and feed them into a single instance of BFD. In fact, I use a template provided by FXpansion that takes care of all the MIDI and audio routing for BFD inside of DP.