recording a bluegrass band for the first time?

forsooth · Post by **forsooth** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 1:59 pm

I need some help guys. I'm about to record my first bluegrass band and I'd appreciate any advice from those of you who have done sessions like this before. I've done folk, folk/rock, rock, blues and some jazz gigs but this is a first for me.

The line-up is vocals, guitar, mandolin, fiddle, banjo, 3/4 bass and pedal stee. It's a quartet and they swop around on instruments.

Here's the list of mikes that I have and suggestions on which and where would be really useful. It's a live gig and I have never worked with them before so I'm not sure if they stand round in a semi-circle like the old time guys and just step up to the mike when it's their turn or what. The guys are pros so I'm sure that they know better than me what's needed but you folks can chip in your suggestions......please!

I mainly do live sessions and hope that what I have here will cover what's needed in the way of mics.

The gig is this week so I need some suggestions quick!

Cheers

forsooth

Here are my main mics.

2 Shure KSM 32 large diaphragm condensers
3 Cascade M20 large diaphragm condensers
2 Peluso CEMC6 small diaphragm condensers
1 Peluso R14 ribbon mic
2 Shure SM57s
1 Shure SM58
3 Audix i5 cardioids
1 Audix OM5 cardioid
1 Audix OM6 cardioid
1 Audix D6
1 Audix D2
1 AKG D112 cardioid
4 AKG 418 clip-on small condensers
1 ElectroVoice N/D 967

Jim · Post by **Jim** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 2:35 pm

I have no experience with this, but if you can rent Down From The Mountain, you can see how the big boys in Nashville work a single (vintage) mic.

You'll hear some great Bluegrass, too.

jmoore · Post by **jmoore** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 3:03 pm

I've never recorded Bluegrass before but I love listening to it...well at least some of it. I'm more into the Alison Krauss and Union Station style than the more traditional stuff.

I'm not familiar with the Cascade mics, although based on price I'd assume that they are not exactly top notch. Here's my first blush thoughts on your situation. You didn't mention how many vocalist there were, so I'll just guess at 3.

Lead Vox -KSM32
BGV1 -Cascade (or perhaps Audix or Shure handhelds)
BGV2 -Cascade (or perhaps Audix or Shure handhelds)
Guitar -Peluso CEMC6
Mandolin -Peluso CEMC6
Fiddle -Peluso Ribbon
Bass -KSM32 and/or D6
Pedal Steel -SM57 or Audix i5

Let us know what you decide on, and I'd love to hear some audio when it's all said and done.

-jordan

Pappy725 · Post by **Pappy725** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 3:42 pm

Have you talked to the band? Do they use just one mic in the middle like the old timers? I mixed sound for a bluegrass band that had their own 8 track ADAT and most had a pickup on their instrument so they could take a line off of each one. They had a couple of AT 4040s that they did the vocals with, leaning in when they had the lead. It worked pretty well, at least FOH. I never got to hear what they got on the recording.
Good luck!

Stephen

Phil O · Post by **Phil O** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 5:51 pm

As far as the mics are concerned I have used an OM5 on vocals before in a live situation and gotten good results. The sm57s work well for most instruments. Not really familiar with your other mics.

I did a recording of a 5 piece bluegrass band once and it came out quite good. I had the players stand in a circle facing each other with the mics inside the circle pointing out. (1 mic per inst/voc quite close) I was surprised at the amount of separation I got, and mixing was a breeze. The players also liked the idea of facing each other.

Phil

forsooth · Post by **forsooth** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 6:04 pm

Jim, I don't have time to rent 'Down From The Mountain' or listen to it because the gig is in two days. I will if I survive this gig though!

jordan..... your suggestion was more or less how I thought of doing it. The Cascades are certainly not in the same class as the KSMs but they do a pretty good job. The Pelusos are excellent and I have used them on acoustic guitar before. The banjo will maybe cause a problem because it will be a bit bright for the Pelusos. The SM57 or i5 will do the pedal steel just fine.

pappy, I haven't talked to the band yet but hope to tomorrow. I think you are right in that I won't need more than 8 channels. I have a mate who recorded the Avett Bros. last two CDs...... I'll contact him as well.

phil, from what I understand the half circle set-up is more or less how it's done but I'm still open to suggestions.........keep them coming.

thanks all!

forsooth

KarlSutton · Post by **KarlSutton** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 6:05 am

It is probably worth your time to at least listen to some other bluegrass recordings before you proceed. Nickel Creek's recordings are excellent as well as Bela Fleck's Tales from an Acoustic Planet.

I remember a time when I recorded a hard rock band & had no clue what the sound was they were going for, hadn't spent much time listening to that genre & well it showed at the gig. Now I try to do a little homework.

forsooth · Post by **forsooth** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 8:03 am

Karl, I was a Dillard Bros. fan many years ago, also Country Gazette and a few others. Your observation is right though and I'll brush up on my homework!

Here's the latest news though, hot off the press.

wow!......... the band just contacted me with a diagram of their stage set-up and their list of requirements! They will supply their own mics and stands and cables........amazing!

Here's what they want

Band will run three inputs from the stage. Band will provide all mics, stands and cables.
The center mic has one large diaphragm condenser (AT 4033) neck high and one small (Shure Beta 98 ) condenser waist high.
Monitors: Put the Beta 98 in the front (please cut all frequencies not on a guitar) No 4033 unless absolutely necessary. Put some Bass in Bass fill.

Four guys, mandolin/fiddle, banjo, bass, guitar

Now that's what I call an organised bunch of guys!

Mind you....... last week I got to record Chris Hillman and Herb Pedersen live.......so things are looking up!

Thanks for your help guys, I'll let you know how it works out!

forsooth

tedwards0118 · Post by **tedwards0118** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 8:46 pm

I would recommend that the band supply you with CD of their favorite band or a band that represents the sound they are after. This is really important during the mixdown.

Be careful that the banjo doesn't bleed through into everyone elses mic. They tend to be the loudest instrument and bluegrassers like to huddle close when the play.

Terry

Phil O · Post by **Phil O** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 7:46 am

forsooth wrote:phil, from what I understand the half circle set-up is more or less how it's done but I'm still open to suggestions...

Yeah, sorry bout that. I missed the part in your original post about it being a live gig. I guess I've been stuck in the studio too long.

See if they'll let you sneak in a spot mic or two. They may come in handy for the bass, solos, etc. They might be opposed to it as there could be visual considerations.

Phil