Searching the Manual

lwilliam · Post by **lwilliam** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 12:06 pm

I do like having a hard copy manual for DP. It's pretty thorough, but lacks a good search feature and the index isn't as thorough as it should be, IMHO.

Has anyone gone to the trouble of scanning it and making their OWN PDF from it so it's searchable? I have no idea how time consuming that might be or whether a 3rd party could do it.

I guess I'm used to hitting the Help key and being able to bring up the manual for searches in other apps. It would be nice...

Obviously, I wouldn't want to distribute it (hey, they should pay, too!).

Any thoughts on this? Would this be way too expensive?

oldguitars · Post by **oldguitars** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 12:12 pm

here we go....

oldguitars · Post by **oldguitars** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 12:12 pm

here we go....

chrispick · Post by **chrispick** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 12:16 pm

Do a site search on this topic. Very contentious.

Remember: You do have DP's internal online help for quick reference.

grimepoch · Post by **grimepoch** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 1:01 pm

And since scanning doesn't include OCR (Optical Character Recognition), it's a huge task. OCR software still has issues.

I actually thought the manual was laid out pretty well, and what isn't there, I find here. This is a subject that has been beaten dead on this board. Do some searches you will see.

lwilliam · Post by **lwilliam** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 1:39 pm

OK...Ok...wow...didn't mean to kick up a fuss. My only point was the online help doesn't cut it compared to the manual. It's like a quick-start guide.

I also didn't ask for one, only if it was feasible to MAKE one from my hard copy. It does seem that the combination of OCR and graphics would be quite a chore.

Hey, I'm legal! I'll post photos of my 4.5 manual if you want!

grimepoch · Post by **grimepoch** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 2:00 pm

Hehe, I believe you!

I too prefer searchable PDF, but I make do as well. I think the fuss is the discussion (argument) that typically follows about the manual being the copy protection, the need for PDF, yadda yadda yadda. Just bracing you for it

That said, if you have questions you have a hard time finding answers to, just plop them on here, people are EXTREMELY helpful in my eyes here.

Shooshie · Post by **Shooshie** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 6:50 pm

The funny thing about these threads is that someone is always wondering if someone ELSE would like to do that. And send them a copy, of course.

I say that if you want your own PDF of the manual, you just sit down in front of your scanner with your OCR software and start scannin'.

I have worked on massively rushed music projects in which I had to scan/copy/fax large amounts of music. I was able to do about 50 pages a night (for just a few hours, of course). You'd then have to set the OCR software up to work and get it working. The clarity of the manual is such that it should work with few errors once you get it tweaked. 20 days time 50 pages = 1000 pages, then another few days to get it all nicely compiled and reduced in a PDF format. So, I'd say that if you did this pretty seriously you could have it done in a month.

Of course... at some point DP 6 will emerge, and you'll need to scan THAT manual. I think it's apparent why you don't see DP manuals floating around as PDF files. My guess is that even MOTU doesn't make PDF files of it, but sends it all to the printer in some awkward format so that nobody will "leak" the PDF. I don't KNOW that to be true; just a suspicion.

Well, if the original poster wants to do it, I would appreciate if he'd send me a copy when he's done. After all, I wrote this big post with all those numbers in it. I mean, it's almost as if I already did all the work! All he has to do is be a scan jockey now.

:D:D

Shooshie

richardein · Post by **richardein** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 3:08 am

I'm not sure I agree with the complaint about the printed manual. I find the index rather thorough and organized, in fact, and usually find what I'm looking for. The best way to understand how to "read" the manual is to page through it at a fairly brisk clip a few times, beginning to end, only bothering to stop if there's a feature that piques your interest. That will give you an overall sense of what's in the manual and where.

Then, it's useful to keep the manual handy for those times when you need to sit down for a spell to do your business. Amazing what you can learn in the space of 5 or 10 minutes of concentrated effort.

There are a few things I'd love to have in the manual, such as a list of all, as in really all, the standard key commands. Also useful would be the opposite, namely a list of those functions that cannot, for any reason other than maybe using Quickeys, be bound to a key, such as (hint) changing the current layer of controller in the Sequence Editor. Or setting cmd-L automatically to the Move Selection To Location x mode, rather than the default.

A comparative chart listing all the functions, or lack of, in the different editor views, would also be a very good thing. For example, for newbies, I'm sure it's very confusing to learn that you can enable record from the Mixer window, the Sequencer Window, the Tracks Window and the Graphic Window, but search as hard as you can, it is not possible to do so from Quickscribe (Why, motu, why?).

There are other quirks that would be good to know about which the manual should discuss, but all in all, the way I see it, the manual is a very fine one.

Especially if you grew up trying to decipher Korg and Roland manuals.

monkey man · Post by **monkey man** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 5:03 am

Shooshie wrote:...I mean, it's almost as if I already did all the work! All he has to do is be a scan jockey now. :D:D
Shooshie

Ha! Where all da scan jockeys at?

What I find funny is MOTU's actually counting on modern-man's laziness here.
Don't blame 'em. My manual's the only dongle I've got, within reason, of course.

No, it's not a Reason dongle, nor is it a dongle of reason.

Shooshie · Post by **Shooshie** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 5:27 am

richardein wrote:I'm not sure I agree with the complaint about the printed manual. I find the index rather thorough and organized, in fact, and usually find what I'm looking for. The best way to understand how to "read" the manual is to page through it at a fairly brisk clip a few times, beginning to end, only bothering to stop if there's a feature that piques your interest. That will give you an overall sense of what's in the manual and where.

Then, it's useful to keep the manual handy for those times when you need to sit down for a spell to do your business. Amazing what you can learn in the space of 5 or 10 minutes of concentrated effort.

There are a few things I'd love to have in the manual, such as a list of all, as in really all, the standard key commands. Also useful would be the opposite, namely a list of those functions that cannot, for any reason other than maybe using Quickeys, be bound to a key, such as (hint) changing the current layer of controller in the Sequence Editor. Or setting cmd-L automatically to the Move Selection To Location x mode, rather than the default.

A comparative chart listing all the functions, or lack of, in the different editor views, would also be a very good thing. For example, for newbies, I'm sure it's very confusing to learn that you can enable record from the Mixer window, the Sequencer Window, the Tracks Window and the Graphic Window, but search as hard as you can, it is not possible to do so from Quickscribe (Why, motu, why?).

There are other quirks that would be good to know about which the manual should discuss, but all in all, the way I see it, the manual is a very fine one.

Especially if you grew up trying to decipher Korg and Roland manuals.

I totally agree. I doubt that I'd use the PDF if there was one. I can look something up in that manual before I can even FIND the PDF on my hard drive. The index is excellent; I've run across only a couple of things -- ever -- that were not indexed properly. Once in a while I do come across a circular reference, but I suspect there is no other reference, and better to see the one circular one than none at all.

And yes, having used the manuals from the early synth days, the DP manual is Shakespeare. Did anyone ever try to learn to use the GreyMatter E! unit for the DX-7II? It was a wonderful upgrade to the DX-7 once you learned how to use it, but the manual was only good for scraping snow off windshields. (it's snowing here as I speak, and I still have that old manual... maybe I'll use it for exactly that)

As for your idea for charts and printouts, I've always kind of wanted to make some things like that, but I never can decide what to put in them. A complete printout of ALL the commands, as you know, is 27 pages long. 28, actually. And that's with the Quickscribe Fonts section closed.

There's just so much to this piece of software that by the time you've documented all the shortcuts and workflow-enhancers, you've got another manual. But I'm still going to keep it in mind, and one of these nights when I go on an information bender, you guys just might wake up to some cool PDFs. Just don't expect it any time soon.

Shooshie

Saintmatthew · Post by **Saintmatthew** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 6:01 am

My guess is that even MOTU doesn't make PDF files of it, but sends it all to the printer in some awkward format so that nobody will "leak" the PDF. I don't KNOW that to be true; just a suspicion.

Well, there really isn't a format a printer can't make a pdf from. Today's print workflow is largely pdf based. One has to build plate impositions and such. Leaks aren't going to be likely however. First, there is the potential for having your ass sued off. More importantly though, printers are a breed all our own. We don't like others getting their hands on our work and heaven only knows what would happen if a cometitor got their hands on it.

Then, it's useful to keep the manual handy for those times when you need to sit down for a spell to do your business. Amazing what you can learn in the space of 5 or 10 minutes of concentrated effort.

I keep mine in the shitter for just that reason.

hearttimes · Post by **hearttimes** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 4:31 pm

on the other side of this coin the many-featured notation software 'finale' is pdf only and man, everytime is use it i WISH i had a printed manual.

billf · Post by **billf** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 5:09 pm

Shooshie wrote:
richardein wrote:I'm not sure I agree with the complaint about the printed manual. I find the index rather thorough and organized, in fact, and usually find what I'm looking for. The best way to understand how to "read" the manual is to page through it at a fairly brisk clip a few times, beginning to end, only bothering to stop if there's a feature that piques your interest. That will give you an overall sense of what's in the manual and where.

Then, it's useful to keep the manual handy for those times when you need to sit down for a spell to do your business. Amazing what you can learn in the space of 5 or 10 minutes of concentrated effort.

There are a few things I'd love to have in the manual, such as a list of all, as in really all, the standard key commands. Also useful would be the opposite, namely a list of those functions that cannot, for any reason other than maybe using Quickeys, be bound to a key, such as (hint) changing the current layer of controller in the Sequence Editor. Or setting cmd-L automatically to the Move Selection To Location x mode, rather than the default.

A comparative chart listing all the functions, or lack of, in the different editor views, would also be a very good thing. For example, for newbies, I'm sure it's very confusing to learn that you can enable record from the Mixer window, the Sequencer Window, the Tracks Window and the Graphic Window, but search as hard as you can, it is not possible to do so from Quickscribe (Why, motu, why?).

There are other quirks that would be good to know about which the manual should discuss, but all in all, the way I see it, the manual is a very fine one.

Especially if you grew up trying to decipher Korg and Roland manuals.
I totally agree. I doubt that I'd use the PDF if there was one. I can look something up in that manual before I can even FIND the PDF on my hard drive. The index is excellent; I've run across only a couple of things -- ever -- that were not indexed properly. Once in a while I do come across a circular reference, but I suspect there is no other reference, and better to see the one circular one than none at all.

And yes, having used the manuals from the early synth days, the DP manual is Shakespeare. Did anyone ever try to learn to use the GreyMatter E! unit for the DX-7II? It was a wonderful upgrade to the DX-7 once you learned how to use it, but the manual was only good for scraping snow off windshields. (it's snowing here as I speak, and I still have that old manual... maybe I'll use it for exactly that)

As for your idea for charts and printouts, I've always kind of wanted to make some things like that, but I never can decide what to put in them. A complete printout of ALL the commands, as you know, is 27 pages long. 28, actually. And that's with the Quickscribe Fonts section closed.

There's just so much to this piece of software that by the time you've documented all the shortcuts and workflow-enhancers, you've got another manual. But I'm still going to keep it in mind, and one of these nights when I go on an information bender, you guys just might wake up to some cool PDFs. Just don't expect it any time soon.

Shooshie

I hate PDF manuals. I really hate PDF manuals.

monkey man · Post by **monkey man** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 2:12 am

MOTU should enjoy reading this; it's official: Unicorns hate PDFs.

How many companies can say their customers love their copy-protection system so much they take it to the crapper with them?
That didn't come out quite right.

Hang on... plop... that's better.

Heavy manual. Light relief.