Express XT (parallel), windows/Mac & Female Parallel to

[Pneumo]

OK, i'm sure this has been asked, but i can't find a thread on this. I just scored a pretty nice condition, dirt cheat Expresst XT (parallel) however i want to use this in my studio, but with my laptop's USB ports, now i know obviously i could have just gotten the USB version or a MTP AV USB, but lets put it this way. I needed a cheap quick fix to my MIDI daisy chaining headaches. And i scored this deal for a measly $25. But here's my question. I bought a DB25 Female Parallel to USB adapter off e-bay and am waiting for it's arrival. I'm wondering if anyone has tried this trick. I'm hopeing i can just install the software and then when the cable comes hook everthing up and then SHAAAZAM!.. Wishful thinking i know, but i just want to know before i try this if its going to work, because for all i know that might work, but something else may be not working, IE... MIDI software, WNDWS XP Pro Sp2, Defunkt Express XT. So if anyone has any experiance with this let me know please. Thanks

[Jidis]

Pneumo,

I'll wish you luck on this, but keep in mind those interfaces have caused a good degree of grief for many, even on regular parallel port equipped host machines. It doesn't look as if the proper amount of time or work was put into creating dedicated drivers for the "new" Windows 2000/XP operating systems, so the results across different machines are sort of a crapshoot.

Read here to get a better idea:

http://caps.pcrecruiter.com/MOTU/

George

PS- It would be great if USB to parallel was the winning combination to get a solid connection on those things.

[Pneumo]

Thanks for that advice, i'm hoping and like i said before wishful thinking, but that this all works out. I read the link you sent me, sounds like i could be in for a headache, we'll see though. Also to boot, i called MOTU tech support and his less than convincing voice said we have had people get this to work. But he didn't sound too convincing. So we'll see. I would appreciate any other feedback on this topic. And if worse comes to worse i can try and sell it locally.

[Jidis]

Well for 25 bucks, I'd probably keep it around. I spent a bit more than that for mine, and I'll hang on to that too. You never know when you might be able to use it on a dedicated VSTi machine or something with a desktop machine that it likes.

Funny how cheap they get all because of a tiny piece of software. Imagine if they came out with a perfect XP driver for the parallel boxes. People would probably be fighting over them on eBay.

Take Care,

George

PS- If you can get it seen by the laptop, but it drops offline a lot, try running clockworks in the background. There was also another thread recently about running an older version of the driver. Also, make sure to post back here after you see what it does on that adapter. It might be interesting.

[Guest]

You never know when you might be able to use it on a dedicated VSTi machine.

Not to sound new to making music, which i'm not, but how if the Express XT won't work, be it, the parallel/usb adapter, the software or otherwise can i make it useful on a dedicated VSTi machine? And furthermore, do you have any links that are waaaay awesome on demystifing the whole Mlan setup. I would Love to make my Desktop, my IMac, and My LapTop all work together in one beautiful orchestra of Musical goodness. Anyways so yeah. Any Help?

Greg

[Jidis]

Greg,

That suggestion may have been more basic than it came off sounding. I just meant using the interface on a computer/OS that it cooperates with and feeding it MIDI from the laptop,etc. I guess if something else like MIDI over LAN or VST System Link worked, you could do that too, but I don't know how the MOTU would work into that.

George

[Airstorm]

I find it truly amazing that only MOTU can take what is arguably one of the longest standing serial bus protocols in the world, & make it almost useless... By hooking it to a computer no less! MIDI has been around over 30 years now, virtually unchanged from the day it started. Yeah, we all know it could be a little better, & faster... So paint some stripes on your cables & pat yourself on the head.

So, with that out of the way, I ordered up about a $1000 worth of new computer parts last year to build the killer system, & unfortunately missed the small detail of being completely devoid of I/O ports. It's got about 50 USB ports, & firewire, & even dig. audio in warm fuzzy 7.1 surround blah blah blah. When I discussed the possibilities with a MOTU tech, I learned how little they seem to know. I am real interested to hear how you come out on this. One interesting point to make is that a lot of these connections/protocols have been somewhat interchangeable over the years, except for USB. USB & firewire (which are almost interchangeable amongst themselves) are a lot different than the typical RS232 or 485 streams. I haven't had a chance to mess with it yet, but I have a cable on my computer that plugs into USB, and provides a standard 9 pin D-sub serial port, and seems to work fine for everything I've plugged in it so far. But... this device is by no means passive! It uses the bus power & has chips & drivers and so on, so obviously a couple cables, your teeth, & electrical tape might not work.

So here's my theory: Just because those parallel cables CAN carry 25 lines of data, they rarely do. Most stuff I've seen doesn't transmit or receive in parallel because it is inherently expensive to drive all the separate lines & keep them all synchronized. We know the MIDI interface is using serial data, & what's the mac serial protocol? I think it"s standard rs422, or 485 which should be easily adaptable to rs232 which I already have interfaced to USB... Get it?
I think it could be done, it's just going to take a little research & of course communicating what doesn't work here will save tons of time.

Let us know how it comes out.

Oh, almost forgot... The killer system is based on my first ever AMD processor. I'll never waste money on Intel again. At 400 Mhz faster than old chip... It still runs 20 degrees cooler under hard load, and I have to be down right abusive to crash it. AMD gets my highest recommendation for those that are on the fence. FX-55 in case you wondered.

[Pneumo]

OK the reply people are waiting for, the one that could make the sale of Express XT's go waaaay up on E-bay. Well here's you answer. After installing MOTU's Drivers, which by the way, do i chose? USB or Parallel Well i'll try both. And guess what, minutes after install, cycle power, reboot. It was like the devistation felt on 9/11. Nothing not a damn thing. My computer recognizes the Adapter as a USB-Parallel printer adapter cable, because of it's built in drivers. So power on, MIDI controller plugged in, i get lights. Infact after hooking it up to a sound module i know the MIDI works. But even the Clockworks doesn't see it. Nothing sees the Express, i would assume because the adapter is designed to be stupid and only send printer messages. LAME. So basically i have all around wasted time, money and have lost respect for the ever growing world of technology. I'm sooo god D@mn annoyed right now. That was serious hopes and dreams right there. I need this MIDI patch bay to work and i cannot and refuse not, to pay what people are selling the USB version of these things for. It's just not justifyable. Especially for how simple their task is. AHHHHHH Any solutions Unicornation???

[Jidis]

i would assume because the adapter is designed to be stupid and only send printer messages.

Pneumo,

I fought that battle long enough to be much quicker to blame the MOTU drivers. I have a feeling lots of "good" stuff would work OK with that adapter, just not the MX.

Sorry it didn't work out. I sort of hoped it would, but like I say, for 25 bucks, I'd hang on to it. It could be a lot worse. Just remember this experience should you need to go for something else. Just because something seems to work OK with the current versions of Windows or its related hardware and chipsets, doesn't mean it will work a week from now if the company doesn't maintain proper support. From what I've heard, that thing did great in 95/98 as well as with serial Mac.

BTW- Airstorm, I think that is supposed to be a 422 compatible signal on that 8 pin like you say. I was just reading that yesterday for something else.

Take Care,

George

[Airstorm]

Cmon guys, lets not bury the carcass yet... On MTPAV parallel, It states that it absolutely HAS to have LPT1 printer port, & only wants Irq 7. Which probably means that's all it will look for. So let's think this through, Motu gonna look for hardware straight off, right? From outside, it does care, it just wants to find a handshake in printer speak. If you are emulating the print ear to hear with, then they at least begin to talk.

Now from the other side of the panel, the driver isn't looking for it's child, it's looking for that very specific LPT1 Port, & it has to be IRQ7. I just read in manual, it has ability to look for LPT2, on IRQ5 too. Then one can surmise that chances are motu driver's not finding what it expects. Here's what to do: First, check out your BIOS, is there anything in there about serial I/O or otherwise ? Double check the entry's for usb, Legacy option probably should be enabled if it's not already. Is there an adjustable port speed on USB? I'm betting not, but set it at 115200, or whatever. I have my port working fine data bits:0, parity:none, stop bits:1, & flow control off.

What does device manager show? Does it show a printer port? Normally from there you change resources for the port right there. What interrupts? Does more than 1 occurrence of IRQ7 show up? Then go back into bios, & reserve that interrupt for legacy/PCI, or whatever your version does to kill int. 7. Now reinstall port emulator, or whatever it takes to get a strangle on either 7, or 5 (but 5 HAS to be with LPT2).

My last idea is, if all else fails... Try to install a printer on it first, who...If MOTU bumps into a a printer living on lpt port, maybe that's all it would take. I'll try to do some sleuthing this weekend, & let you know if I figure anything out.
Cya, Storm

[Guest]

I too am in this exact situation.

[SLBMusic]

I have had problems with the MicroExpress parallel interface running into several different newer PCs running XP. The device had the same idiosyncratic problems on all the machines. A friend of mine told me he has learned that the newer PCs simply don't know how to speak "parallelese" very well - as everything is USB now anyway. He had problems with his parallel printer working on his new PC. Hate to be a conspiracy theorist, but you gotta wonder if the PC guys are trying to get you to throw away your legacy gear and drop some clams for the newer peripherals.

I had to break down and buy the microlite, which was, I think, about $130. Everything is humming like a top now.

I feel your pain.

[Airstorm]

So I've spent the last couple of weeks poking around a different approach to this. I bought a Yamaha digital board a year ago, & have spent that entire time trying to come up with methods to give me COMPLETE computer control over it. All it has is a little port called "To host" that is mini DIN, & very little mention of it in the book. Yamaha has a beautiful interface/editor that you can DL for free, but it only works on the 96 khz version. Only because of device id bit 3E instead of 3D... I could almost taste success!

Even though this board has MIDI, you can only do so much with that, as far as channel messages anyway (limit=127), & if you try constant SYSex messages while playing... Then you are reminded that it's serial data. So I built a cable for that little host port that has a dsub 232 plug on the other end. Plugged this into the usb adaptor & ran the Cmexx 02R demo package, & it works without so much as a hiccup. The result being computer control of literally thousands of parameters. I'm 95% sure that this "to host" port, & the "net" port on the MIDI interfaces are the same. I am going to try out a PCI card that someone handed me for free that's just a RS232 I/O card... I'd like to see how it compares to the adapter.

So the bottom line is that I think we might be able to make them work without the parallel cable. One option someone might try, go to the Yamaha pro audio sight & get their usb-MIDI driver... and/or the cbx com port -MIDI driver. It seems like it shouldn't work, but I have a driver running for the port adapter, then also the CBX-MIDI adapter from Yamaha... & you can be sure that nothing would work if it were any different. I'll try to make time this weekend to upload the pinout for making the cable, although you might rather wait to see if I let the magic smoke out of mine first.