DP 5.11 Crashing All The Time--Please Help!

[remainanon]

Spectrasonics' public beta forum has their "beta" UB versions of the plugin - which I use because of my being on a Mactel. I use quotes because it's my working version. So far it's been completely OK with Performer (although there's been some funny business with Pro Tools).

In the update notes they mention a few issues with Performer - as well as fixes. They are paying attention.

If you're desperate it might be worth a try using one of these versions on your PPC.

Just an idea.
JW

[emulatorloo]

Ditch the wrapper. It's flakey. I paid up for mine and gave up due to load times and a bunch of other incompatibilities..

I am pretty sure rbellevue@aol.com is talking about the vst-to-au wrapper that is part of the powercore software, not the VST Wrapper product from audioease -- so far I have have no problems with the powercore wrapper on my dual g4

[rbellevue@aol.com]

sorry bout that am at 10.4.8 just am at wk and am not infront of my mac will try thouse pref trashing type things
loving my powercore lush she is

[emulatorloo]

sorry bout that am at 10.4.8 just am at wk and am not infront of my mac will try thouse pref trashing type things
loving my powercore lush she is

Just a note I never upgraded to PowerCore 2.0. I am still on the prior version with no problems.

--

[Blaremusic]

thanks to all for your help. here's what I've done:

••• trashed the AU Info Cache and the DP Prefs, and after a very long and shakey re-reading of all the plugs and instruments, it opened. And crashed when I inserted Stylus!

••• Updated Stylus to the latest version (1.5.1) and checked everything else for versions, then launched again. Crashed on startup. Launched again, and crashed on inserting Stylus

••• Increaded buffer to 512 (though this will be a problem when I go to record new audio and hope to play in time) and this seemed to help, though it ultimately crashed.

••• Ditched VST Wrapper. STILL not stable.

I'm not convinced that the problem is actually Stylus, by the way.

DigiCore Audio is 6.9.2, which is the version of PT that I run for delivery of final mixes and stems. Could that be a problem? (And yes, John W., who knew when I named my old band "The Jitters" in 1981 that the word would become so relevant--in a bad way--in the coming years?

Got to figure out why I didn't use V-Racks on season one of this show--think it was because I couldn't figure out how to freeze the tracks quickly. With that problem solved (haven't DONE it yet, but I know it can be done) that's another thing I should try to minimize CPU load. Anything else?

(man, am I ever grateful for this community!)

BP

[Blaremusic]

With the excellent help of my friend Bruce Fowler, from Modular Music (some may know him as a list veteran here), I think I've narrowed things down to a RAM-eating problem in the original file.

••• first we opened the original file, and tried inserting various less memory-intensive instruments (DP's new-ish VIs opened fine, as did MX4; however BFD crashed the file. Tried it again and tried inserting Stylus, and again the file crashed)
••• together we opened a New DP file, while watching Activity Monitor's System memory window, and everything was fine
••• added SIX instances of Stylus in that file, and the amount of free memory was still generous
••• Bruce suggested loading into this New file the original sequences one-at-a-time from the crash-prone file. I'm doing thi,s while watching the memory go down to a couple hundred MB and then it crashes
••• my interim conclusion is that there is something redundant in those sequences (which were copied over as a template) that is a RAM-eater

I'm going to find it and fix it, obviously, so I can deliver this damn episode, but I'm wondering--is this an anomoly or should I consider getting more RAM just in case? I've got 5 GB but could swap out and add another GB or two if that was the concensus.

Thanks again.

BP

[Shooshie]

I don't know if you'd benefit from more than 5 GB of RAM. Perhaps if you're running lots of heavy VIs; otherwise, DP itself won't use more than a certain amount of RAM. I forget that number, but it's way under 5 GB. At least... that's what I remember. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

Shooshie

[Blaremusic]

My friend's DP system uses a gig and a half for his DP files, mine uses all 5 GB...I've sent a support request to MOTU but the response might take a few days...

I'm only running TWO VIs (Stylus, with 6 tracks, and MachFive, with three) plus maybe six to eight stereo audio tracks on the particular sequence I'm doing right now, and the remaining system memory, according to Activity Monitor, is around 650 MB.

Don't know don't know don't know...

BP

[remainanon]

Hi Blair -

OK You 'Leno'd' the joke (which was really just an affectionate shout out to the good ol' days).

So, maybe you've figured out who John W is by now...

Anyway I think you're on the right track - MOTU response "a few days" - glad the crazy optimism is still with you.

Can you bump your PT rig up to 7? You can still deliver 6-compatible versions and you will love the way 7 operates.

When I first got 5.11 up and running MOTU emailed me that I should always be using the most up-to-date Digi Core. Don't know if they're really right about that but they said it so...

The Stylus BETA I'm using (the UB version for my Intel) is 1.6b. A little higher than 1.5.1. I still wonder if that might be worth a wack.

Have you taken the offending session and loaded it sequence by sequence into a new session?

Cheers.

"There Goes Love"

JW

[Blaremusic]

I thought "John W" reminded me of someone I once knew, only much more helpful.

Thanks for the tips--and yes, I guess MOTU's support will take longer than a few days. I'm going to bump up PT to 7-something in the next few days and probably get more RAM just to get through the next week or so without issues.

I thought I had updated Stylus to the latest available, but I missed the beta version, so I may try that. Though at this point, the RAM-sucking doesn't seem to be limited to Stylus. That's why I wonder if it's the CoreAudio driver, which is why I think I'll enter the 21st century and get PT 7.

Having Activity Monitor open while working is fascinating (of course, I also like staring at cars going by. Sometimes I chase them, barking), and I have noticed something that may or not be of concern: in the list of processes, MIDIsomething or other (I'm at home now, not in front of my work screen) turns red and says "(not responding)". It doesn't actually affect my MIDI performance, so I'm not worried yet, just curious...

That's When I Need You, JW.

(And I wasn't Leno-ing the joke,I was explaining for the vast majority of people who had no idea what you were talking about. In fact, realistically, the majority in this case, would be everyone but you and me.)

Again, thanks for the help!!

BP

[remainanon]

Blair, I'm pretty sure something's up between Digi Core Audio and DP and RAM leakage (and I'm not referring to low-fat potato chips of the 90s).

I am getting crashes on certain DP files. If, after one of the crashes, I peak at Activity Monitor, I notice that the usually big slice of green available RAM is much smaller after one of these crashes, and never really comes back to size again until a restart.

Certain of the Project files seem prone to crashing, and can be rehabilitated with "Load" into a fresh session. The fix isn't permanent though - eventually the fixed session will go bad too. (It's not every session that has this problem - current project it's 3 files out of 48).

My sessions are very light on plugins and VIs - just lots of audio and a video track.

Did you try fixing your session with "Load"? Too lazy to read the thread again...

I'm just a little suspicious of the state of things with Digi - uncharacteristically because I've usually found their updates to be among the readiest for session use.

A slight caveat - there is apparently a very ugly bug in Pro Tools 7.3, which was just released about 3 weeks ago. Digidesign are hammer and tongs onto a fix, which they say will be ready by the end of the weekend. Meanwhile if you're not doing major work within PT on its own 7.3 is probably safe, since mainly I would think you're using the rolled-in Core Audio driver.

I'm also having to keep DP and PT separated - although I'm not sure which of the two is the red-headed stepchild. PT is doing something in the process of writing overviews in the SDII files that is causing DP 5.11 to choke.

So if you're migrating from PT to DP I have to export all the audio first, and never put it in a PT session, or DP falls flat on its arse as soon as it makes any reference to the audio file (including seeing it in an import dialog and clicking on the file name.)

I got an email from MOTU this morning suggesting that I use copies - which I'm obviously doing (since I actually need their software to run) but in much of what I do sharing audio has up until now been an essential part of the workflow. To be fair I think it's a puzzle for both Digi and MOTU, and I get the sense that the companies don't work that closely with one another. Alas.... anyway if you keep them sterile from each other all seems well.

Now I'm going to watch for pooched processes in Activity Monitor. Interestingly, sometimes a process will go red, say "not responding" and then seem to recover. Possibly AM is panic-prone? Just a little?

IHTH.

Oh, and sorry about the leafs.
JW

[Blaremusic]

Ah! "Olestra" was the low-fat alternative that caused anal leakage. Those were the days, my friend. Ruined some nice pants...and a sofa...in the 90s, but I was thinner, damnit!

I did try fixing the session with "Load..." but gave up after a while because the NEW session was crashing, and meanwhile, if I just opened the original session with AM open, deleted all the Undos and merged soundfiles and all that, it was pretty stable, albeit with almost NO RAM headroom at all, sometimes. (It's funny: the remaining RAM issue is inconsistent. I can open the same sequence with the same VIs, etc., a few minutes later, and there'll be MORE RAM sometimes, other times less. Weird.)

So right now I'm working with a version of the original file, and things are mostly sailing along. If, God forbid, I wish to add a snare from BFD or a loop from Stylus, for instance, I'll have to up my RAM by a GB or two (!).

Here's the thing: in order to get a higher CoreAudio driver, I have to upgrade PT--a few hundred bucks--AND upgrade DV Toolkit--a few more hundred bucks--and now you're telling me that PT 7.3 has an ugly bug...Hmmmm. Not sure I want to spend the extra dollars in order to be well and truly f*cked rather than just limping along as I am right now. But, you're probably right, and I suspect that's where the leakage is too, in the CoreAudio driver.

Now, normally when I deliver a show, I record new audio to a new set of stem tracks in DP. Then, I import those tracks into PT and use the time stamps to get 'em conformed. I burn the CD with the session and the audio and deliver...

Are you saying I should do something different in order to keep them "separate"? I'm not sure I understand...Should I make sure I blow out the stem tracks from DP after I import them into PT? In my method, DP never "sees" them again, and never "knows" they've gone anywhere (like a PT conform session), right?

Or are you just referring to a migration from PT to DP? Probably won't do that for the next three months, until the series season is over. Then there'll be some fresh hell...

Yes, I do agree that AM is a trifle panic-prone. But it's been a revelation to me, who rarely used it before.

You've been very helpful (and entertaining, as always!) As for the Leafs...apparently they're some kind of, I dunno, "hockey" team...? Although I have a television machine it is so very rarely used to view sports that I'm not up on today's sports figures...

(How's Graeme? How old is he? Owen is five!! How's Tamara?)

BP

[remainanon]

Blair -

Hit me with email - you know, my actual name, all one word, AT yahoo DOT com. Graeme is 16.

Yup. 16.

RAM leakage is preferable to anal leakage I guess. And I strongly prefer the associated mental picture.

Your limited use of PT would suggest staying put for now.

Digidesign Core Audio Driver version 7.x is available as a standalone - that's what I was using on my system before moving from the G4 to Intel - even though I was still running my Pro Tools work in OS9 using a Mix Plus system... They co-habited happily, but I think there might very well be a DAE conflict if you install CAD 7 on your PT6-capable machine. I wasn't sharing the same OS between the versions.

You could go nuts and create 2 partitions on your main disk - start from the one with the 7.x CAD when you're using Performer, and then start again from the one with PT6 installed.... Simple, really, just start by completely re-formatting your main drive...

OK, maybe it's better if you limp along at this point. Which doesn't preclude going nuts without changing your main hard disk.

So many configurations of insanity and operating systems, so little time.

Regarding the files being separate - if you are loading the files you mixed in DP to a Pro Tools session, and not actually copying them to the Audio Files folder created within Pro Tools' session folder, you may indeed have a problem when you re-open the DP file. I would on my system and I've seen at least one other similar report on this board.

You're 100% safe from this problem (and have a further copy of your final tracks) if you copy/convert them in your PT session rather than clicking 'ADD' in the Import window. Then PT will never make an in-session reference to your DP audio, and DP will truly never know the difference.

If those SDII files are added to a PT session and appear in either the timeline or the region list, then DP may well choke hard on it.

This has the appearance of a bug that will be fixed without much brouhaha by whichever widget is causing it. PT 7.3 may very well contain the cure.

Email bro!

Later
JW

PS Have you taught Owen to sing "My Room Above the Street"?