Why isn't anyone moving from DP to PT or Logic?

Frodo · Post by **Frodo** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 10:40 pm

Does anyone object to drapes with no carpet at all?

Can beggars still afford to be choosy these days?

toodamnhip · Post by **toodamnhip** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 10:57 pm

Frodo wrote:Does anyone object to drapes with no carpet at all?

Can beggars still afford to be choosy these days?

The restaurant can have any combination of drapes and carpet as long as the fish is very fresh and it's all -you-can-eat

Frodo · Post by **Frodo** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 11:08 pm

toodamnhip wrote:
Frodo wrote:Does anyone object to drapes with no carpet at all?

Can beggars still afford to be choosy these days?
The restaurant can have any combination of drapes and carpet as long as the fish is very fresh and it's all -you-can-eat

Hmm.

me like.

me like.

In that case, I'll take DPs carpet and Logic's drapes (or the other way around).

monkey man · Post by **monkey man** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 6:01 am

Hey, NIKKI NEXO.

Cool name, BTW; I'm Nicky too.

In your sig it says, "IT'S ALL ABOUT THE GROOVE!!!!"
Tell me, is that groove "in the pocket" or under the carpet?

NIKKI NEXO wrote:... I prefer dark carpet in the shape of a triangle. All the better to set up my drum kit. LOL

You mean you beat the triangle with your stick?
Dang, Unicorns are an innovative bunch.
I'd ask for samples, but they've probably gone off by now, hey?

Happy new year, NIKKI.
Nicky

rinky · Post by **rinky** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:17 am

My 2 cents: Bring back the Opcode team of the 90's!!!!!!!!!

MarkH · Post by **MarkH** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 4:09 pm

Interesting, no one has mentioned Ableton Live. Some days I'll work only in DP, other days only in Live, and other days I'll rewire Live to DP. With Live 6 you can rewire it to DP and still use Live's built in virtual instruments (Impulse, Simpler, Sampler, Operator, Instrument Racks).

I write electronic music and Live probably appeals to me more than the average Joe or Jane. That aside, one of the MAIN things that appeals to me about Live is how smooth and fast I can work. Even when working on non-dance tracks I still enjoy using it becuase it's so fast to navigate around...and non-destructive edits to audio are a BREEZE. Automation is as simlpe as it gets. I also like the way the plugins (esp Live's built in plugins) are laid out in a horizontal row with all editable paramaters right there. No need to open up floating windows. It still has a lot of growing-up to do but I think Ableton has covered a good chunk of what's needed to make a DAW totally usable for writing music.

Frodo · Post by **Frodo** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 5:15 pm

MarkH-

I think Live wasn't mentioned because it's a very different sort of workstation than DP, PT, or Logic. That you're rewiring it to DP makes it a highly unique and very powerful app. No one would readily rewire the other three DAWs, although it is an interesting notion.

I think that if someone were to move from DP, PT or Logic to Live, they would probably be changing the nature of the way they sequence almost entirely. Someone using Logic for loop-based sequencing may find that Live has everything they need without all the additional baggage. But someone who scores for film or needs complex MIDI routing in a self-contained package might not resort immediately or soley to Live to accomplish what they need.

Don't get me wrong- Live is an amazing app with incredible algorithms for time stretching that are clearly better than DP's, at least. I think Live and DP are quite complimentary to each other for as different as they are.

hearttimes · Post by **hearttimes** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:18 pm

i was born and raised and swore by performer ever since i used it on my mac se (which, by the way, i believe the MIDI worked better on in those days, though it could be that i just sucked and didn't notice - actually change that from maybe to more of a certainty) anyway after going with p/dp all the way from 1 up to 4.5 on a g5, i switched to protools hd because my projects were getting larger and i needed the fire power. plus i wanted to bail on my mixer, a yamaha 02r - for space reasons, not sound quality.

it was a bit of a hassle to switch because i was so used to the dp. i was absolutely used to it, and taught it to many friends while helping them build setups.

and now some years later i am quite facile on protools. so far, there has been no limitations on my projects sizewise. the firepower still has plenty of headroom. i use many vi's and readon, live, etc.

still i have tons of songs recorded in dp which i bring over in digitranslator. and everytime i open dp to export them i fondly recall the things about the program i miss.

they absolutely mop the floor with digidesign when it comes to MIDI. its not even close. the things the latest protools boast about in their MIDI features dp has had forever. there's no notation editing in pt which is a big big drag to those who are used to having it. there are more sacrifices as well. its almost like dp is for musicians, and pt is for engineers. thought this, of course, is a generalization.

at first i tried to run dp as a front end to digi's hardware which works ok, but when you are so used to MAS and now you don't have the Pre-Amp, or the Everb, or any of the things you were used to plug-in wise, it really makes it seem like you've lessened dp from what you had been using, with the advantage of way more tracks. people advise you to switch back and forth between dae and mas, but for me this was more trouble than it was worth.

you then get hammered by the price jump for tdm versions of your plug ins and you also end up associating and asking for help from other pt users. this can make it easier to commit fully to protools, leaving beloved dp behind.

i hope it is clear in this post that i was and am a fan of motu, and not a disgruntled former user. its a great software. superior in many many respects to protools. and perhaps these days computer performance makes the firepower issue inconsequential. at the time i switched, that wasn't the case.

best wishes to all dp users and i hope anyone who is seriously considering a switch can benefit a little from my experiences.

blue · Post by **blue** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 10:31 pm

Frodo wrote:I think Live and DP are quite complimentary to each other for as different as they are.

Most definitely. I use Live rewired to DP anytime I want to manipulate audio. Sometimes I wish DP had some of the audio tweaking capabilities of Live so that I could stick with one app, but there's something to be said for specialization: Each environment has its strengths, and neither gets over-stretched.

Frodo · Post by **Frodo** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 11:17 pm

hearttimes wrote:.. i switched to protools hd because my projects were getting larger and i needed the fire power...

I'm glad to hear you say this, hearttimes. Thanks for adding your POV.

Fire power. That says a great deal right there. It's not so much an indictment of DP, but a recognition that more fire power is possible today if there were hardware to support it the way Digidesign has offered for PT.

We all know about the differences in costs, but I'm always wondering what that money buys-- and if there's not a price somewhere in the middle that would give DP a boost without breaking the bank.

hearttimes wrote: they absolutely mop the floor with digidesign when it comes to MIDI. its not even close. the things the latest protools boast about in their MIDI features dp has had forever. there's no notation editing in pt which is a big big drag to those who are used to having it. there are more sacrifices as well. its almost like dp is for musicians, and pt is for engineers. thought this, of course, is a generalization.

You know, that may be a generalization, but somehow it doesn't strike me as an over-gereralization. With engineers and PT on one side with and DP and composers/arrangers on the other (given that we are all "musicians" of one type or another) I've seen both apps press towards the middle. The slow coming MIDI updates in PT speak for themselves as to what type of user has most likely supported PT over the years, not to mention the lack of notation. (That may change with the Digidesign-Sibelius alliance, perhaps?)

Yet, DP has indeed addressed layers of MIDI details, stemming from a time before virtual instruments were an issue. With outboard MIDI back in the day, I got SO much done just using a Performa 6400 running at 200Mhz (that's MEGA hertz!!). So the need for a certain type of fire power appears to have been more pressing for PT than DP earlier on.

Now that so much has gone virtual, it seems that PT has a certain field advantage in the way its harware was designed to funtion. It all just underscores something Blue said regarding the strengths and weakness of any one package.

I'm having a field day with DP and MIDI, but I do stumble at times in post production...

hearttimes wrote: at first i tried to run dp as a front end to digi's hardware which works ok, but when you are so used to MAS and now you don't have the Pre-Amp, or the Everb, or any of the things you were used to plug-in wise, it really makes it seem like you've lessened dp from what you had been using, with the advantage of way more tracks. people advise you to switch back and forth between dae and mas, but for me this was more trouble than it was worth.

That's why I'm thinking of using Nuendo when I get my Intel. It will be networked to my G5 which will still run DP using the MOTU hardware, but that price/performance middle ground extends beyond Nuendo--- The Apogee hardware is also on the slate; the price feels just about right and the 16x's sound is amazing. It all makes me wonder, again, what the PCI-424 is not doing. Those PT-HD cards look like mini cities from a bird's eye view...

hearttimes wrote: you then get hammered by the price jump for tdm versions of your plug ins

You can say that again...

hearttimes wrote: you then get hammered by the price jump for tdm versions of your plug ins

One more time in Portuguese

hearttimes wrote: O preco de TDM esta um fado mal!

hearttimes wrote: and you also end up associating and asking for help from other pt users. this can make it easier to commit fully to protools, leaving beloved dp behind.

Let's hear it for Digidesignation!

hearttimes wrote: i hope it is clear in this post that i was and am a fan of motu, and not a disgruntled former user. its a great software. superior in many many respects to protools. and perhaps these days computer performance makes the firepower issue inconsequential. at the time i switched, that wasn't the case.

best wishes to all dp users and i hope anyone who is seriously considering a switch can benefit a little from my experiences.

Thanks again, hearttimes. Continued good luck and productivity to you.

blue wrote:...Sometimes I wish DP had some of the audio tweaking capabilities of Live so that I could stick with one app, but there's something to be said for specialization: Each environment has its strengths, and neither gets over-stretched.

Indeed, blue.

Until such time that we are forced to make some crucial decisions such as hearttimes had to do when going over to PT, we can at least be grateful for rewire to augment DP with things like Live as needs dictate.

I still say that there is a huge middle ground for many of the rest of us-- having Live's algorithms in DP would be amazing as well as having some of Digidesign's extended muscle with some of the MOTU PCI hardware.

I'm on an odd cusp right now-- watching computers getting better and yet still in need of a network to accomplish tasks more efficiently. I'm getting it done, but I know it's taking more time than it should for the way I'm having to chop up my projects into smaller chunks.

But the key indeed is to focus on an app's strongest features and not its weakest ones. If one's general workflow can be sorted out, the rest of the process becomes relatively manageable.

Shooshie · Post by **Shooshie** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 12:21 am

All I ask for is unfathomably massive power and blinding speed in a wee little inexpensive box. Is that too much to ask now? Huh?

Shooshie

Frodo · Post by **Frodo** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 2:50 am

Shooshie wrote:All I ask for is unfathomably massive power and blinding speed in a wee little inexpensive box. Is that too much to ask now? Huh?

Shooshie

If they can squeeze four cores onto one chip, then I shouldn't think it would be too much to ask!

Inexpensive? No.

Wee? Not on your life.

That it should work?

Okay, maybe I was being a little unfair...

MIDI Life Crisis · Post by **MIDI Life Crisis** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 8:57 am

Shooshie wrote:All I ask for is unfathomably massive power and blinding speed in a wee little inexpensive box. Is that too much to ask now? Huh?

Shooshie

I'll PM you the phone number of my last girlfriend... she had all that and more!

monkey man · Post by **monkey man** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 9:13 am

You mean she had power and speed too?
Hard to believe; she was unfathomably massive.

And what's this about keeping her in a tiny cage?
Must've been the Tardis.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TARDIS

Or was that the "Turdus"?

You're 2 much, Gorilla-boy.

Nicky

MarkH · Post by **MarkH** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 9:47 am

Funny thing..elements about this thread (Pro Tools HD versus native apps) reminds me A LOT about the discussions on post-editing forums where they discuss Apple FCP versus Avid Adrenaline, or Autodesk Flint/Flame/Inferno versus Adobe After Effects or Combustion.

It usually comes down to a couple things. First, if you live in a city (usually L.A. or New York) where there is high demand for short turn around times and you can comfortably book clients 300+ days of the year, then you get the top of the line hardware and never look back. You're charging your clients up the wazoo anyway so the return .

I don't know that companies like Avid and Autodesk are losing market share, I just don't think they are gaining as much new market share as they would like. Autodesk is replacing all the legacy SGI hardware/turnkey stuff with off the shelf IBM workstations running Red Hat Linux and AJA video cards. Avid has introduced Mojo SDI to bridge the gap between DV editors and Adrenaline. They've even unbundled Media Composer so it can be purchased as a software-only app now.. AMAZING.