changing from OS9 to OS10

bman · Post by **bman** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 3:27 pm

I've been running DP3 with OS 9 for many years, with much happyness..I'm thinking of upgrading to OS10 and DP5 (it's about time). I dont use virtual instruments, just a few MIDI tracks and of course lots of audio tracks. What computer can I get away with buying.?. I will probably use firewire from a mixer to record, and mix in the box using various MAS plugins..Thanks for any advise..B

Frodo · Post by **Frodo** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 4:25 pm

bman--

are you in the market for an intel mac, or are you thinking of sticking with a PPC?

I would suggest getting a late model PPC, except the Intels are cheaper, faster, and *overall* better machines brand new. Without virtual instruments, 99% of any floating concerns that could arise are completely eliminated.

The one thing to watch out for with getting an Intel is to make sure that all other apps you use as well as your third-party plugins and drivers are 100% Universal Binary. Most software developers will have this information somewhere on their support pages online. It must clearly state that their software has Universal Binary support or Intel support. If it doesn't specifically say that, check their FAQs and then call them directly if necessary to make absolutely certain.

Read MOTU's PDFs and check their support site for info about Audio Ease updates that are needed for an Intel-- or even for DP 5.1x.

If you wait until after Macworld and NAMM next month, there will probably new announcements from Apple that will mean new machines are on the way. This also means that current or older machines will drop in price.

Another thing to consider is getting one of Apple's refurbished models with a warranty. There can be considerable financial savings going this route, which would perhaps get you a better machine in better condition for a much better price than you would on, say, e-bay. Knowing that the machine is coming from Apple provides an extra layer of securty-- ie: you know that the computer was treated well and checked out properly before buying it.

http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/W ... rtifiedMac

bman · Post by **bman** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 4:39 pm

Frodo
Thank you for reply..I have a 1.26 Mirror door mac..I guess I should upgrade that as well..?..B

Frodo · Post by **Frodo** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 5:35 pm

bman wrote:Frodo
Thank you for reply..I have a 1.26 Mirror door mac..I guess I should upgrade that as well..?..B

You really don't *have to* upgrade your MDD-- not right away, anyway. Again, since you are not running virtual instruments, much of your horsepower will go towards dealing with audio. If your current machine is a dual PPC, then all the better.

However, with a faster computer that takes more RAM, you will get incredible performance out of DP and your FX processors. A G5 will give you better performance if you are using a convolution reverb. Altiverb pretty much gagged on two instances running on my previous G4.

To run DP5 you will need to have OS 10.4.x. I would recommend using OS 10.4.6 or later.

But, if you *are* considering a new machine, I would definitely recommend an Intel. If you compare prices, the best PPC Mac is indeed coming down in price more now than it was even a couple of months ago, but generally speaking the Intels are cheaper and faster-- and support for it is current and getting better as time goes by.

The one caveat with dropping PPC prices is that it is an indicator of dwindling market demand, which inevitably leads to the eventual decline of support for them. The dwindle has been very slow to date, but that will likely change more rapidly, especially now with Photoshop and other important Mac apps going over to the Intel sooner than later.

MacPros are using Two Duo-Core processors-- the 2G base Intel price is $2200. The 2.66G Intel base price is $2499. These are Quads, for all intents and purposes. Compare to current prices of new PPCs-- the 2G PPC refurbished from Apple is $1600, and the 2.3G PPC is $2k. These sound like incredible deals-- but keep in mind that these are DUAL processors and not double duals like the Intels. The strategy here is to determine how any declining PPC support will or will not impact your investment over the next, say, two years at least. You don't want to find yourself in the postion of having to upgrade your Mac any sooner than that, I would imagine.

Where do you want to be four years from now with your gear? This is a rhetorcial question that may help you decide when to upgrade to a different machine. For me-- if it were a question of spending $1600 now on, say, a 2G PPC dual refurb or $2200 on a new Intel double duo, I'd go with the Intel. You could easily spend or exceed the difference in price trying to keep pace with advancing Intel support.

My best recommendation for your MDD would be to backup (clone) your current system drive-- reformat it and make partitions for both OS9 and OSX. (I believe your computer is a dual boot machine.) I'm not sure how full your OS9 drive is, but if it's more than 75% full, you may want to consider getting a larger HD as a replacement. I can't remember how those machines dealt with HD sizes larger than 120GB. In any case, 120GB should be plenty for both OS9 and OSX.

-- or do some HD housekeeping on your current drive by archiving old files to another storage medium and then deleting the old files to open up valuable storage space.

Continue running your audio to/from a different drive, be it internal or external.

Give Tiger and DP 5.11 a try first on your current MDD machine to see how it works for you. You will be the first to know when the time arrives for a new machine.

(Note-- all prices are USD estimates)

bman · Post by **bman** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 6:17 pm

Frodo
Thank you again...Great info...B

Frodo · Post by **Frodo** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 6:50 pm

bman wrote:Frodo
Thank you again...Great info...B

My pleasure, bman. I'm looking forward to hearing more about your plans and achievments!

Happy Holidays!
F. Baggins

MIDI Life Crisis · Post by **MIDI Life Crisis** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 7:02 pm

I'll echo Frodo's comment. I would put Tiger on a seperate HD and keep your current OS 9 untouched (maybe he didn't say that exactly...)

When I moved to OS X (Panther) I lost YEARS of emails, addresses, etc. as Entourage simply over-wrote the database. I was able to get a text file of the info, so if I had to provide an email in a court of law I could revive it, but otherwise a PITA. EVentually, I added a second drive to my G4 Quicksilver and kept the OS's seperate.

But I have not used OS 9 in about 2 years now (or about that) and don't miss it a bit now that I have upgraded all my software. I had to get new versions of Word, and theAdobe Suite, etc., but it was well worth it.

Since the Intel macs are so new, I am staying away from them for at least another year or so unless I have to switch to keep up with technology. Otherwise, I am stayingon aPPC (G5 2 x 2.0 gHz) and probably stopping with OS X.4.8 since the supposed last Tiger (10.4.9) doesn;t seem to offer much that I really need and DP is pretty stable at the moment.

You might want to pick up a book on OS X (Tips and Tricks, etc) as it is very different from OS 9. Lots to learn, but fairley easy to master. I think the book I used was "Mastering Mac Os " and it was a lifesaver. Lime, I think...

Frodo · Post by **Frodo** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 7:19 pm

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:I'll echo Frodo's comment. I would put Tiger on a seperate HD and keep your current OS 9 untouched (maybe he didn't say that exactly...)

I mentioned it, but didn't emphasize it-- just in terms of cloning the OS9 drive and partitioning the system drive for both OS9 and OSX and copying back the important OS9 files/apps.

But what I failed to mention was that this suggestion was something YOU'VE emphasized over the weeks and months... and a great suggestion it is.

MIDI Life Crisis · Post by **MIDI Life Crisis** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 7:31 pm

Frodo wrote:But what I failed to mention was that this suggestion was something YOU'VE emphasized over the weeks and months... and a great suggestion it is.

While I would LOVE to take credit for it, the fact is I was advised to do this by my high school bud in San Francisco. I called him AFTER I trashed my OS 9 data. So the true credit goes to "Gary H" who knows who he is

And, to misquote Ricardo Montalban: "Cordorba is the car for the man who knows who I am!" Ah, the 60's...

70's?... where did I hide that pipe?)

bman · Post by **bman** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 1:33 am

You guys are great..Thank you..B

pietervd · Post by **pietervd** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 2:15 pm

Talking about switching...
I'm on a laptop, OSX.4.

I'm thinking to buy a desktop.
Is it wise to wait for Leopard?
Or does a new OS X mean that i need to update everything (DAW, plugins) that's on my powerbook?

Is 5.1.1. gonna work on Leopard?

Frodo · Post by **Frodo** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 3:03 pm

pietervd wrote:Talking about switching...
I'm on a laptop, OSX.4.

I'm thinking to buy a desktop.
Is it wise to wait for Leopard?
Or does a new OS X mean that i need to update everything (DAW, plugins) that's on my powerbook?

Is 5.1.1. gonna work on Leopard?

5.11 will work on Leopard, but I would check with MOTU's site for any updates which may address special needs.

Wait for Leopard? Hmm. Good question. I wouldn't make Leopard the deal breaker just yet. I would even give Leopard a month or two to settle in with an update or two before installing it myself.

We know DP 5.11 is doing well with 10.4.6, 10.4.7, and 10.4.8. The forthcoming 10.4.9 may very well be a fine OS version also, but we just don't know yet. No one will know much about DP and Leopard before April.

If you are buying a new computer, I would focus more on the CPU and prices rather than the next OS. There will likely be new announcements at Macworld next month-- many are waiting to see if Intels new quad core chip will find its way to Apple-- should a 'Mactopus' (2x Quad CPU) be on the slate, then previous Macs will drop in price eventually. The 3G Quad could be very attractive.

The thing about Leopard as far as DAW users are concerned is that it promises to support 64-bit apps-- but software developers remain silent about their 64-bit app rebuilds. It could be another year or two before any of that pans out.

If you are in the market for a new machine now, stop for a moment and consider the time you'd most likely replace it. Hardware changes over so fast these days that by the time Apple Care runs out you'll have a vitrual fossil on your hands. But your needs may not require the latest and greatest.

If your time frame is 2-3 years, which isn't a lot of time, consider how far we've come in the past 2-3 years. This hasn't been too much of an issue before, but as with the change over from Apple proprietary peripheral interfaces to USB and FW, the change from PCI to PCIx to PCIe has put an extra hurdle in people's paths. More CPU cores means more RAM, and that means more outlay that we've not been used to.

With challenges to AGP and DVI on the horizon, there are rumors of HDMI possibly on the way for video support. There are also rumors of BluRay supported DVD drives appearing at some point. This is not really something to worry about, but just something to look out for--- do you want to get adapters or will you want to replace your video card altogether down the road? Does it matter that your combo drive is single layer, dual layer, HDMI and or BluRay? Apple will likely offer some easy solutions to accommodate these developments (as with their free VGA-to-AGP adapters), but no biggie.

Just food for thought.

emulatorloo · Post by **emulatorloo** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 6:50 pm

bman wrote:I dont use virtual instruments, just a few MIDI tracks and of course lots of audio tracks. What computer can I get away with buying.?

Just confirming that you will be ok with your Mirrored Door machine in this scenario. Esp if you have maxed out your RAM.

Recommending that you read this article (others are sick of me linking to it, but it is very good for people with G4's to read). It is about optimizing OS X for DAW work -- author is DP user. Written before Tiger, but pretty much everything still applies. I would add to it -- get a utility called Dash_Off from versiontracker.com. Turns off the Dashboard -- I use it before I start DP because the Dashboard can eat a lot of ram and CPU.

Tracking the Big Cats
http://emusician.com/gencomput/emusic_t ... _big_cats/

petermoon · Post by **petermoon** » Sun Dec 31, 2006 1:20 am

B-Man,

I just moved my g4 MDD to OSX and am going though the same dilemma as you are. Depending on how many audio tracks and what kind of plugins you need to run, you MIGHT be able to get away with it. In OS 10.4.8 with DP 4.61 i can get maybe 40 audio tracks and a reasonable amount of DP's included plugins. This is after I implemented Emulatorloo's advice, which helped a good bit. Using 3rd party plugins kills my cpu pretty quick and virtul instruments are out of the question.

In OS 9, with Dp3.1, I could pretty much run whatever the heck I wanted to; never really reached a limit on track count or plugins of any stripe. For me, it's gonna be essential to at least move up to a dual PPC G5 to get the performance I'll need from DP in OSX. It ends up coming down to $$$.....I think if you've got the bread and you're not gonna lose any plug-ins or apps in the switch to universal binary, you might as well step all the way up to the INTEL Mac. Of course, this is coming from a guy who is already 3 generations BEHIND the current technology!

HCMarkus · Post by **HCMarkus** » Sun Dec 31, 2006 4:56 pm

petermoon wrote:B-Man,

I just moved my g4 MDD to OSX and am going though the same dilemma as you are.

I am curious: How does your system performance compare to the same machine under OS9? Due to circumstances beyond my control I never had the chance to do a comparison, but friends running older Macs have advised me DP performance took a serious hit under OSX. While I love the feature set of DP 5.11 and find OSX a real pleasure to use, if performance is diminished to a great degree, the joys of the current OS and DP may elude you.

Wherever you end up, I second (third? fourth?) MLC's recommendation that you simply work from a new drive with OSX and retain your old system drive intact until you are absolutely certain all is well with the new setup. I further recommend you partition your new system drive (especially if it is one of the current big fatty drives that store so many gigs of data) so you can clone/upgrade to a new partition, risk free.

MOTUnation.com

changing from OS9 to OS10

changing from OS9 to OS10

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