Apple laptops - shonky pieces of h/ware??

[boonier]

I'm more than a little dismayed at Apple.

I trully suspect that the build quality of their portables of the last 3 years leaves a lot to be desired. Judging by the number of "Recall programmes" currently active for this machine, i think you'd agree.

My 2nd powerbook in just over 1 year has failed and without the definitive diagnosis from the people that fix them; I know its not the memory, it not the HD, it *could* be the graphics card, but I'm certain that its the logic board (that comes in at the attractive price of £875 to replace * -- what a bargain). Theres a significant number of failed logic board posts on the internet for the g4 powerbook.

On a sidenote, my g/friends iBook failed 3 times -- the trusty logic board. And it still doesn't work properly.

SO I don't really know what I'm trying to achieve with this post. Perhaps I'm trying to express my undying love for everything Apple. I feel they've done me proud...no really. I guess I dont really know where to go next. Should I continue with Apple portables? One thing for sure is that I wont be making music for the next while.



* I didnt get AppleCare , but then you don't expect such an expensive piece of equipment to fail so horrendously twice in just over a year. I mean thats what you pay for is it? what do you pay extra [over a PC] for?

[Frodo]

* I didnt get AppleCare , but then you don't expect such an expensive piece of equipment to fail so horrendously twice in just over a year. I mean thats what you pay for is it? what do you pay extra [over a PC] for?

Oh, boonier-- no AppleCare! Interesting-- the cheaper gear is easier to replace. It's the expensive gear that deserves protection-- or rather, it's the consumer that deserves the insurance and assurance that the expensive gear will be maintained without question.

My sister's iMac from a year ago has been to Apple repair 4 times. They did their best not to get it right until I got on the phone with them-- I'd bought the machine for her for Christmas 2005, so Apple was a little arrogant when I got on the phone until I made it clear that I'd paid for the unit and was not happy. They denied that there was anything wrong, but when the screen kept scrambling, I had my sister take a digital photo of it and I in turn e-mailed it to a repair rep who responded immediately to my complaint. And yes, I included the name of the previous support jerk who talked to me so condescendingly. Within a couple of days, they'd sent a repair specialist to my sister's house who basically gutted the entire machine and built it from the ground up. No problems since.

I've had 9 Macs in my life and only since 2000/2001 have I seen the reliability of these machines drop. Recent battery recalls and now the new replacement program of MUCH older PPC PB's... I could give a new CPU the benefit of the doubt in its first year, but the fact that certain earlier model PPCs are only now being acknowledged as being officially problematic in addition to the concerns over the newer machines is more than a little troubling.

I guess I'm not sure what I'm trying to express, either, save for some measure of disappointment that I hope doesn't go any further than it has already.

[boonier]

Thanks for the words Frodo. An interesting experience you & your sister had there too. I'm taking it to a guy to have a look at it tomorrow, fingers crossed that its something that I wont have to pay for (ie. it is covered by one of apples replacement schemes)

Its a shame that we have to get our tempers fraying to get results, particularly with a company like Apple. However interestingly I've noticed that Aplle are becoming less and less interested with its users and more interested with its competition and market share. Also I too have noticed the quality of its builds drastically degrade.

I really hope that its something to do with the memory slot and they can replace the logic board free of charge. Unfortunately my serial number is outside the range that they accept, but there are a plethora of discussions and petitions on the net about Apple accepting that they f*cked up.

THe real bummer is that I've just literally received the rest of the money to pay for the rest of the laptop.....and now its decided to die!! Thats sick aint it?

I am tatooing APPLECARE into my forehead now.

S

[GWJ]

Hey Boonier

Hang in there.

This won't practically help you, but I'm on my third laptop (G4) since March, 2004. The first was a logic board failure - I had to become aggressive while quoting the sale of goods act, as applicable in the UK, in order to get my money back. The second - Ram slot not working. The third just wasn't built right - had some major creaking going on with the aluminium - had it 'tightened up'.
Since those dark days I have taken out Applecare, Procare, and in fact I'll take out 'Couldn't trust a f*&k care' if it helps me keep the music alive.
The point I'm trying to make is yes, you have to fight to get things done - even simple stuff like the 'fit for purpose' ness of your purchases. Apple et al.

Frodo is right - the new Macs are 'loose' compared to their ancestors (I'm no Mac expert, but I have contacts). It was said if you could get a Mac built in California or Northern Ireland then that's as good as it gets. Your Mac built elsewhere is a whole other matter.
I agree with an earlier post here. Apple's future doesn't lie with computers, but with ipod and service related stuff - downloads, licenses etc. In effect Apple have done their work - the brand. Anyone can build a computer ( you'd like to think! ;) ), but it takes a special group to create an attractive way for people to change their approach to working, entertainment, and dare I say it, living. This is the business Apple are in. If you are aware of it, then you can press on with whats important to you and not get bogged down by a computers failings. Remember the 'sale of goods act' (1988 I believe) and a bit of assertiveness, goes a long way these days.

Music deserves nothing less.

Best

[Frodo]

Indeed. Hang in there and dare to go the distance. Only those who survive the labrynth of red tape and really assert their cases survive the scrutiny for the sake of consumers all-to-easily taking advantage of refunds on high end, rapidly depreciable items. People who are up to no good for the sake of a buck don't want to work that hard or risk using the law for their sake lest the law entrap them in the process.

There was a day when buying Apple Care was indeed a waste of money. The machines simply never had any problems which couldn't be easily sorted out by the user. I don't dare skip Apple Care from here on.

[sdemott]

The way I see it - this all began to happen as Apple was forced to hit price points to compete with the PC market. Apple quality was second to none - but you paid a price for it. When Apple had to begin competing on pricing the quality had to suffer.

I paid over $4k in 1991 for my first PowerBook...and the thing still works today (System 7 baby!). Roughly a year and a half ago i bought my current PowerBook for just under $2k. Thousands of times more powerful, but certainly not built like the old ones. It's a price we pay for lower costs. Apple couldn't sell their hardware at the prices they were asking - so they needed to find ways to compete with Dell & Gateway (at the time), HP & Compaq. Consumers didn't care that they were better - they wanted cheap.

As that old business adage goes:

Here are your options
[ ] Good
[ ] Fast
[ ] Cheap
Choose any two.

[Frodo]

Consumers didn't care that they were better - they wanted cheap.

That sums it up right there. Sometimes consumers en masse don't really assess what they ask for carefully enough. We are reminded quickly just how important it is to have stability and reliability.

The need to run Windows on a Mac in an effort to draw in a piece of the MS 95%+ market share also led to lower prices and corners being cut in various ways. It was clearly important enough to put new machines out there well before software was really up to speed. We're, what, over a year into Intel-Macs and are still waiting for several of the most important apps to port over to the new platform (photoshop, among the many).

Some wondered if Windows on the Mac would contribute to the loss of Apple's identity as we've known it. It appears that this has been only a smaller piece of the bigger picture, but the Apple we once knew (for a lot of unexpected reasons) is all but history.

[sdemott]

The whole BootCamp thing is another (potentially) frightening foray for Apple. Not to be paranoid (me: was I paranoid when they tapped my phone, read my mail before I got it and bugged my house? You: wow! They did all that! Me: They did? I thought I was just being paranoid!) but here's the scenario as I see it unfolding:

1. Apple "ports" OS X to the Intel architecture
2. BootCamp - hey look Mac & Windows living together (side by side on my laptop...)
3. Apple slowly introduces PC HW features (e.g. 2 button mouse)
4. More media toys (iTV, iPhone) to go with the iPod
5. Apple outsources the computer HW business to someone like Dell
6. Apple exists by licensing the Mac OS and through their media center offerings (which is where all there money lies anyhow).

That's the writing on the wall, as I see it. But...maybe I'm just being paranoid.

[twistedtom]

Apple exists by licensing the Mac OS and through their media center offerings (which is where all there money lies anyhow).
Yes Look at microsoft.

[boonier]

Well, for an update (if anyones interested) I called Apple UK and spent well over half hour on the phone with them, moving up through the food chain..all at no avail.

They said that as the laptop had no history of failure in the 1st year of its use, they couldn't consider an repair/replacement exception out of warranty. Nor could I purchase extended warranty - out of the 1st year of warranty. The cost of the part (a logic board) and labour to fix it would be £1000; the cost of a new computer. I quoted the UK Sale of Goods act 1988, to see what their response was. "Blah blah no record of problems in first year blah". I even said that I was starting up a company very soon, and was looking to kit out the office with apples, but I would look elsewhere if they didn't own up to their laptops consistently failing ...this wasn't necessarily an empty threat either.

This experience has just confirmed what I suspected about apple (they dont deserve a capital A). They only bother about people that continually throw ££$$ at them. They dont seem to care about their hardware failing on its customers...or their reputation for that matter. They used to be company that needed respect and deserved it. Now everyone is walking around with the trademark white earphones, wearing the brand, they're the fat cats with cigars and smug grins.

Being right in the middle of a remix project, I am that angry at the moment, I'm considering a PC, so bye bye Motu and all the software that I've actually bought.