Recording Choirs

31flies · Post by **31flies** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 9:28 pm

I've got about 60 kids to record with a paino player accompanying them. I've got two Rode NT5's and one AT3035. I figure I'll place the AT3035 a few feet from the piano, and the NT5's in front of the kids placed a few inches apart on a mount. BUT, I won't have a ot of wiggle room for experimenting with what works best. Anyone have any sure fire way to set this up?

Thanks a bunch.

sdemott · Post by **sdemott** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 8:45 am

I do live recordings all the time (choirs & orchestras), so I may have some useful insight. I would suggest:

Place the NT5s on a stand in front of the choir in an ORTF array (mic's about 7" apart angled out 55 degs. for a total included angle of 110 degs). Get the mics high and out in front a good 10 feet to start.

This is usually enough to capture the entire performance - you could use the 3035 as a spot mic where needed (probably not needed on the piano - but maybe soloists ). Adjust the positioning for optimal sound: up/down will change the front to back balance of the recording and

If you can rent or borrow mics, I would try to get 2 omnis to compliment the ORTF pair. All in line in front of the performers and each omni about 3 feet off to the side of the ORTF pair (one to each side).

Then when you mix keep the omnis about 6dB below the ORTF. Not a hard & fast rule - but a good place to start, adjust to taste.

HTH

supersonic · Post by **supersonic** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 2:46 pm

Another thumb rule you can start with is having that stereo pair at least as high as the choir is deep. That's what I usually start from.

31flies · Post by **31flies** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 3:27 pm

Thanks for the tips...and the AT3035 will be just fine poisitoned a few feet from the piano?

sdemott · Post by **sdemott** » Sun Nov 26, 2006 12:45 pm

I don't have any personal experience with the AT3035, but I don't see why it wouldn't be fine.

Again, I really don't think spot micing the piano will be necessary with an ORTF array (I've almost never found it necessary, except with when the piano is featured - as in a piano concerto with full orchestra & choir. And even then it's usually not needed). Set up the NT5s and use the 3035 where needed - you may find it necessary to spot mic soloists rather than the piano - unless the piano is positioned behind the choir it is usually plenty loud enough.

Remember fewer mics will yield a better end result with less fuss. Once you spot mic anything you have to start compensating for arrival time differences and phase relationships. If you can get away with just the ORTF array go with it.

HTH

31flies · Post by **31flies** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 4:28 pm

Just wanted to follow up to this post and thank you guys for your help. I placed the mics as suggested and it seems to have worked just fine.

sk · Post by sk » Tue Dec 05, 2006 7:44 am

Well I got to the post too late to help you for this performance but here's something to keep in mind for the future:

As others have said get the mics as high as you can. We record hundreds of live performances each year and have booms that reach about 25 feet high. This is especially important if the performers are on stage and you are setting the mic stand on the floor (we usually rope off 3 seats in the center of the front row). After setting your mics at 45 to 55 degrees from center (for a total of 90 to 110 degress coverage) set the angle of the boom to point the mics in an imaginary line to just above the conductor's head. This will give you decent sound every time. With orchestras and symphonies you may have to cheat this angle toward the conductor's neck to even out the levels between the brass/woodwinds (usually in the back) and the strings (usually in the front).

Hope that all makes sense !!

msmith92 · Post by **msmith92** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 5:46 am

so is the choir playing along with a pre-recorded track? how do they hear it? i have some songs (rock) that i'd like to have a "small" choir sing on. my setup is in a finished basement though and the ceiling is quite low (7-8'). what would you suggest?

msmith92 · Post by **msmith92** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 5:46 am

anybody have a clue how to record a small choir in a basement studio? how do they monitor the music?

sdemott · Post by **sdemott** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:38 am

headphones?

How many voices in this small choir? If you don't have enough cans you can always set up a playback speaker and have them sing along with that, then run the entire track again with the choir still in place, but not singing. Record that to a new track and invert the phase. Playing that back with the choirs track should remove the music.

I prefer headphones - its just cleaner.

If I had to choose I would even run the choir in sections (as many voices as you have headphones). This will also give you a bit more control to balance the parts when you mix.

Of course, I'm assuming this is a backing for a song & not the lead part. If this is classical or a choral arrangement - they should just be recorded as they perform, with accompaniment. If the choir is the featured "instrument" in the song then I would not mess around and go the headphone route.

msmith92 · Post by **msmith92** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 8:06 am

i guess it'd be a small choir, but i've listened to bands like spiritualized and they have a massive choir backing them on tracks and i always wondered how they do that being that i can't imagine they'd dish out headphones for each person in the choir.

resolectric · Post by **resolectric** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 4:06 am

msmith92 wrote:anybody have a clue how to record a small choir in a basement studio? how do they monitor the music?

Give them Mono monitoring, through out-of-phase speakers.
There is a greater chance that the monitor sound will cancel-out in the mics.

Other otpion is to record the choir with one single mic and record two (or more) passes of it, for Stereo. The cancelling is more effective. This, of course, with Mono out-of-phase monitoring in the booth.

I have also used two out-of-phase mics to record a single vocal in a room with other musicians playing simultaneously (drums, amplified guitars, etc.)
This method is quite effective in reducing, nearly cancelling, the sound of the room and not the single vocal in front of the mics.
Anyway, this one wouldn't work for a choir but only for a single sound source.

BradLyons · Post by **BradLyons** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 11:56 am

Along this topic.... In the first part of January, I'm recording a youth choir that will just knock your socks off. I mean seriously, these kids are GOOD (Voices of the Unity Youth Choir). I'm planning on a couple Earthworks TC30K's above them with a Royer SF12 in the distance. I'm pretty certain there is a full-band as well, so that distance recording thing may not be so hot

I can't wait to record them (and post a few examples, if any of ya'll wish).

msmith92 · Post by **msmith92** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 6:14 am

so, will you just track the choir later or is there another room for them to be isolated from? how many are in the choir? will they all have headphones?

i have a band who has already recorded in my basement and they want to add a small choir (ala spiritualized). i guess i'll have to start purchasing a ton of headphones!