motu drivers and windows xp

akltam · Post by **akltam** » Sat Oct 28, 2006 4:59 pm

fnord wrote:
- live with it and try to arrange
- migrate to a mac
- buy a different soundcard (if you read this forum you know where to look at)

Everything else is a waste of your precious time.

fnord

Does changing to a MAC really solve all these problems ? I just bought a 896HD and I would have think twice if I read this first !!! And I do have setup problems with it right now.

Smokehouse · Post by **Smokehouse** » Sat Oct 28, 2006 6:32 pm

We don't really have an scientific measure here, but I and many others would suspect that, as far as MOTU goes, the Mac guys have it easier. That's primarily due to MOTU's history as a Mac-first company, and the expertise of the software engineers in house.

That said, I'm speculating that if I had a EDIROL or RME device that I would have equal success/difficulty on either the Mac or PC platform. IMHO.

By the way, after figuring out how to roll back the FireWire drivers to SP1 (while still running XP SP2), getting a TI FireWire card, and sticking with the 3.5.3.2 MOTU FireWire drivers, I have had rock solid performance and really like my 828mkII -- especially for the price. I would still recommend MOTU to a PC user, but only if that person were ready to do a fiddling and diddling.

Pixie · Post by **Pixie** » Sun Oct 29, 2006 12:21 am

Unfortunately, there's no way for me to roll back to older drivers, as it seems the new driver is written specifically for the 8PRE. How fast are MOTU in general at getting rid of bugs and providing new drivers?

arth · Post by **arth** » Sun Oct 29, 2006 9:18 pm

Smokehouse wrote:I would still recommend MOTU to a PC user, but only if that person were ready to do a fiddling and diddling.

It may be good for diddling, but isn't ideal for fiddling. Us fiddle players tend to use low-powered mics and need high sensitivity but low gain. (I know what you meant

)

arth · Post by **arth** » Sun Oct 29, 2006 9:21 pm

Pixie wrote:How fast are MOTU in general at getting rid of bugs and providing new drivers?

For Windows? When the pope admits she's a lesbian.

pheewee · Post by **pheewee** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 9:30 pm

I agree with you guys. MOTU is not consistant enough. The only consistancy that is has is your piece can work today and quits tomorrow. At some time before I said to myself: "It is working for me flawlessly. What's wrong with your systtem?" It might be the same thing that one of you who hasn't got the problem saying today but tomorrow you will be digging through this forum to search for your answer and not likely to find one.

I have both RME and MOTU interface. The RME is used for the Mac and MOTU is for PC system. I'm really reluctant to switch the MOTU to use with the Mac because my Fireface 800 seems to produce a better sound quality than the 828mkii can, even though it can do a good job. If I don't find the answer to my problem (Cuemix State is not in sync because the audio stream is not locked) I probably have to bite my l tongue and let the 828 go to make room for an RME hammerfall or something similar. Bitter enough...

fnord · Post by **fnord** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 11:24 pm

MOTU on your PC and RME on your Mac? Interesting enough

fnord

peisrael · Post by **peisrael** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 12:04 pm

Just to add one note: I am using an ultralite, mostly with a laptop. I'm running SP2. I did have the dancing lights/static problem, but eliminated it with a SIIG dual port FW400 only PCcard. I've not had any problems with the ultralite or the drivers since. I'm using Sonar 5.

MotuS · Post by **MotuS** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 11:11 am

my traveler was working funny in the beggining every once in a while,now it seems ok, but i think is the miracle windoze(xp home sp2) i have installed on my toshiba laptop that kinda fix the problem on its own

...

when there is windoze uncertainty is certain!

as far as the quality of the sound it think we get tooooo close to the subjective evaluation...rme , digi (and its funny pro toolz-its not pro just because it says so in the name)...etc...its a little like mic choiz- after a certain level its all subjective. if talkin' apogee vs. motu ,ok but otherwise its waste of time.

of course here we get into the financial part of the issue...
ok if u r rich u get a 17 inch screen mac laptop and and eight chanells of apogee and u most probably never need to come to a forum like this one because u r trouble free ...and can try to concentrate on ur music making then else...

and a question now:
anybody knows how the new focusrite (8 pre!!!) performs as far as stability of drivers? [/quote]

malcolmo · Post by **malcolmo** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 1:55 pm

MotuS wrote:
when there is windoze uncertainty is certain!

Ignoring the fact that you betray yourself with the use of "Windoze"...

I think if you look at the number of different flavors of PC versus Mac objectively, then I think you would have to admit that Microsoft does a better job than any other company at hardware testing (as well they should). Having said that, I have had as many problems on Macs (bus errors, address errors) in the past as I have presently on PCs (BSODs).

It is clear (after having purchased my MOTU units) that MOTU are providing Windows drivers begrudgingly, as a matter of market necessity and given that fact, their drivers are decent enough. But the fact remains that their Windows support is barely existent and this should be something potential buyers should know.

The only reason I dont regret my purchase is that I bought on eBay and a 24i for $300 is better value for money nthan I think you'll find anywhere.

-mal

Jidis · Post by **Jidis** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 5:35 pm

malcolmo wrote:I think if you look at the number of different flavors of PC versus Mac objectively, then I think you would have to admit that Microsoft does a better job than any other company at hardware testing (as well they should).

True. I've never figured it was just them deserving the credit either. I think with as many inexpensive alternatives from so many vendors and developers available, it makes it a lot harder for companies to be too slack about conforming to all the specs and protocols (they play well with others or they lose their customers). Needless to say, there are some who have managed to make that last a bit longer than it should.

- Not meant in a Mac vs. PC way.

I like the idea that this thread has remained in it's rightful place for this long (it is a driver/platform discussion). Should be a sticky

.

Take Care,

George

arth · Post by **arth** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 3:18 pm

In the defense of MOTU, it doesn't help that Windows has two different driver models and two different driver APIs.

For Windows 2000/XP, the WDM driver model must be used, and the only supported driver API is now DirectSound. MOTU thus provides a WDM DirectSound driver.

Now, for the bad part:
The earlier waveOut interface supplied a generic mixer in the OS, but DirectSound puts the onus on the driver manufacturer to supply a mixer (a minimum of volume control and mute for all I/O channels, plus a master volume).
Unfortunately, CueMix isn't a DirectSound mixer, so while MOTU has supplied the drivers, they haven't supplied the required DirectSound mixer part.
The drivers have not been passed through the Microsoft WHQL process either, meaning they're not approved for use in Windows (if you call Microsoft for support, they may ask you to uninstall all non-certified drivers first, or even reinstall from scratch if they suspect a non-certified driver is part of the problem).
I really wish MOTU would work with Microsoft to get the drivers up to spec, and the hardware and drivers WHQL approved. It's not just about obtaining a logo, but to ensure that the drivers do indeed provide all the required functionality and works with all compliant hardware. If to be taken seriously on the Windows platform, having certified drivers is a very basic step.

neuronic · Post by **neuronic** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 5:26 pm

For Windows 2000/XP, the WDM driver model must be used, and the only supported driver API is now DirectSound. MOTU thus provides a WDM DirectSound driver.

hopefully motu drivers for vista will be better then

With Microsoft's decision to remove the audio hardware layer in Windows Vista, legacy DirectSound 3D games will no longer use hardware 3D algorithms for audio spatialization. Instead they will have to rely upon the new Microsoft software mixer that is built into Windows Vista. This new software mixer will give the users basic audio support for their old Direct Sound games but since it has no hardware layer, all EAX® effects will be lost, and no individual per-voice processing can be performed using dedicated hardware processing.

http://openal.org/openal_vista.html

fnord · Post by **fnord** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 12:19 am

@arth: I don't see the defense for MOTU since they ship a product with bad Windows drivers. As a customer should I really care whether it's difficult for them to write/fix such drivers or not? I don't think so.

Also, I don't see the point in getting the drivers certified. Even if it's not just another cash-cow for M$ to supply the logo, what good would it do? If MOTU can't develop sincere drivers for their own hardware, Microsoft is certainly not going to help them along. So if they do get the drivers certified in their current state, it wouldn't improve the quality. If they don't get the certificate because the drivers don't live up to Microsoft's standards, MOTU is still in the same position to improve them. That's where they already are. So either way, nothing is gained.

fnord

DJ BIS · Post by **DJ BIS** » Sat Nov 04, 2006 2:16 am

While we are on the subject of things not working:

Does this link to the UltraLite's new drivers work for you? Cause it sure ain't happenin' over here!

http://downloads.motu.com/firewire/FWAudio.pdf

Thank you!