Recording rock guitar chain

chrispick · Post by **chrispick** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 12:28 am

I need to step up my rock guitar recording for an upcoming, high-profile job. A score-to-picture gig.

What are some of the mic-to-preamp chains you guys are using to record loud, distortion guitars?

Should it help in your recommendations: I'll likely be playing either a Schecter (with hot double-coil pickups) or an American Strat HSS through a Hughes & Kettner Tube Factor into a Fender Cyber Deluxe, probably on a Fender amp emulation setting.

Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

oldguitars · Post by **oldguitars** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 8:37 am

I use 2 mics per amp. A sennheiser 421 into an api into a distressor and a 4050 (or KM184) into UA2610 into ADL 1000. I usually put the mics right next to each other right up on one speaker (off center by a couple of inches), although i have used them on two different speakers on amps like tophats and matchless' because they have 2 different speakers. The compressors are barely jumping on peaks. That is how i do it. hope that helps.

chrispick · Post by **chrispick** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 11:23 am

oldguitars wrote:I use 2 mics per amp. A sennheiser 421 into an api into a distressor and a 4050 (or KM184) into UA2610 into ADL 1000. I usually put the mics right next to each other right up on one speaker (off center by a couple of inches), although i have used them on two different speakers on amps like tophats and matchless' because they have 2 different speakers. The compressors are barely jumping on peaks. That is how i do it. hope that helps.

Thanks, oldguitars.

Do you put the 4050 or 184 right up to the speaker? I thought condenser mics were sensitive to high volume levels.

And what of phase against the 421 signal?

BradLyons · Post by **BradLyons** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 11:35 am

I strongly encourage a Royer R121 or R122 if you can swing it, I use one through a Focusrite Liquid Channel (combined with a Sennheiser MD421 through another Liquid Channel). If you want to get the sound that others are getting, you NEED a Royer R121 as that is what so many other engineers are using today. I've put them out on the road with some pretty major names, as well as in the studio. Combined with an MD421, SM57, I5, etc...you can't beat it.

chrispick · Post by **chrispick** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 11:42 am

BradLyons wrote:I strongly encourage a Royer R121 or R122 if you can swing it, I use one through a Focusrite Liquid Channel (combined with a Sennheiser MD421 through another Liquid Channel). If you want to get the sound that others are getting, you NEED a Royer R121 as that is what so many other engineers are using today. I've put them out on the road with some pretty major names, as well as in the studio. Combined with an MD421, SM57, I5, etc...you can't beat it.

Thanks Brad.

I have access to a friend's Liquid Channel (awesome piece of gear). Any favorite L.C. pre-comp combos you'd recommend for rock guitar?

oldguitars · Post by **oldguitars** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 12:06 pm

Yep, i put the con right up there, they can take it with a pad. If you align the 2 mics so their capsules are the same distance from the speaker, you shouldn't have a problem with phase. That being said, you will know right away if there is a phase problem. I also second the royer suggestion from brad, if you have one. AWESOME mic, i just don't have one but i have used them a bunch and i have never been disappointed.

BradLyons · Post by **BradLyons** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 1:54 pm

Chris,

Well there are so many to choose from, but my personal favorite is

PREAMP- Preset: DUNK/US Modern Tube 2 (based on the SLAM)

COMPRESSOR- Preset: STELLAR 4/US Classic Optical 1 (based on UREI LA-4 Siler Face).

I primarily use my LC's on Kick and Snare, but I use them for any lead channels as well such as guitar.

chrispick · Post by **chrispick** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 2:39 pm

BradLyons wrote:Chris, Well there are so many to choose from, but my personal favorite is PREAMP- Preset: DUNK/US Modern Tube 2 (based on the SLAM), COMPRESSOR- Preset: STELLAR 4/US Classic Optical 1 (based on UREI LA-4 Siler Face). I primarily use my LC's on Kick and Snare, but I use them for any lead channels as well such as guitar.

Thanks man. I appreciate your input. Of course, I intend to experiment as much as time will allow, but it's nice to have a few "beaten paths" to trace.

jaffi · Post by **jaffi** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 4:26 pm

I run either an i5 or an SM-57 through either my traveler or an MP-2NV. Then, I will use the Royer121 or a KSM44 through either the Traveler or the DRS2, depending on the gain situation/mic combo. It works great. As for compression, I just use Logic's compressor. Every now and again I'll use the Pro VLA, but it has a definate "sound" to it, and I don't like all guitar recordings to sound the same. I have been dabling with using the 800r, but I prefer my other pre's when it comes to guitars. If the room is right (I do a lot of mobile recording) I will throw either my 414 or a U87 in the room and mix it in very low, just for flavor.

echo · Post by **echo** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 10:40 pm

Rock guitar = api

chrispick · Post by **chrispick** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 10:45 pm

jaffi wrote:I run either an i5 or an SM-57 through either my traveler or an MP-2NV. Then, I will use the Royer121 or a KSM44 through either the Traveler or the DRS2, depending on the gain situation/mic combo. It works great. As for compression, I just use Logic's compressor. Every now and again I'll use the Pro VLA, but it has a definate "sound" to it, and I don't like all guitar recordings to sound the same. I have been dabling with using the 800r, but I prefer my other pre's when it comes to guitars. If the room is right (I do a lot of mobile recording) I will throw either my 414 or a U87 in the room and mix it in very low, just for flavor.

Thanks Jaffi. It's good to hear other options. And I've heard many people are happy with the quality of the Traveler's pres. Nice to hear a specific application.

Anyone else with suggestions?

jaffi · Post by **jaffi** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 12:09 am

The Traveler is great at mid-to-high applications. Another thing it has is tons of gain. I have $2000 mic pres that don't put out that kind of gain. It definately holds it's own.

markwayne · Post by **markwayne** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 10:57 am

Recording guitar is second only to recording drums for separating the wheat from the chaf with engineers. The most important ingredient is the player and his/her gear.

Assuming that. I would second much of what's been posted. I suggest a good dynamic (the 421 is usually my first choice but a 57 can work) placed close to the best sounding speaker available and angled so that it's element is parallel to the speaker's cone. If you have a nice-sounding room, you can add a ribbon (my fave) or a good condenser (read something without the nasty high end of the cheap, Chinese models out there) to capture the room. If you are in a small, crappy sounding room, why bother? One last trick that I've been doing for years is to take an H&K red box right off of the speaker and record it to a third track. Mix it in low with the mids yanked out and panned to taste for an extra fat tone that sounds thick and present all at once.

experiment and use your ears,
Wayne

chrispick · Post by **chrispick** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 11:34 am

markwayne wrote:Recording guitar is second only to recording drums for separating the wheat from the chaf with engineers. The most important ingredient is the player and his/her gear.

Assuming that. I would second much of what's been posted. I suggest a good dynamic (the 421 is usually my first choice but a 57 can work) placed close to the best sounding speaker available and angled so that it's element is parallel to the speaker's cone. If you have a nice-sounding room, you can add a ribbon (my fave) or a good condenser (read something without the nasty high end of the cheap, Chinese models out there) to capture the room. If you are in a small, crappy sounding room, why bother? One last trick that I've been doing for years is to take an H&K red box right off of the speaker and record it to a third track. Mix it in low with the mids yanked out and panned to taste for an extra fat tone that sounds thick and present all at once.

Thanks markwayne. Looks like I ought to get my hands on a 421.

And I agree: Recording great-sounding guitar is no simple task. Luckily, it loks like I've have a lot of time to test-record and playback.

BradLyons · Post by **BradLyons** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 12:12 pm

The sound of the room today no longer applies with plugins such as Waves IR1, Digidesign Revibe, TL Space, and Altiverb. These plugins re-create the room environment. I actually record in a dead room and simulate the room later with wonderful results, I prefer it that way. BUT the key here is ONLY with high-end reverbs, anything less....well it isn't as convincing