Sound presents on small monitors

Here's where to talk about preamps, cables, microphones, monitors, etc.

Moderator: James Steele

Forum rules
Here's where to talk about preamps, cables, microphones, monitors, etc.
Post Reply
User avatar
Timeline
Posts: 4910
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Fort Atkinson Hebron, Wisconsin...
Contact:

Sound presents on small monitors

Post by Timeline »

I realized recently I can get in real trouble remixing on my main monitors which are 2.5s with a sub 12.
I have a pair of small monitors which were cheap bi-amped desk computer speakers I bought some time ago. To make them tolerable I doubled them up for more volume placing the hf unit's next to each other below my Adams.

The problem is, Mixes I hear from the internet in some cases sound incredible on the small monitors and I can't get that pure bass tone from DP in the box. This is making me think somethings wonkier than expected on my Adams. When i mix on the Adams it sounds even but still without presents. I have tried to mix directly to the small speakers trying different eqs, plugs and limiters and the instrument presents just doesn't reveal itself. If i could just get kick/bass and snare to punch through like some of the tracks i hear, I would be thrilled. But alas, I have tried every patch in BFD3 and even live drums without luck. I'm beginning to think studios with transformer coupled audio paths, "consoles" are winning out. Digital is just disgusting me recently. Should I fire up the 16 track?
Comments:
2009 Intel 12 core 3.46, 64GB, OSX.10.14.6, Mojave, DP11, MTPAV, Key-station 49,(2) RME FF800,
DA-3000 DSF-5.6mhz, Mackie Control. Hofa DDP Pro, FB@ http://www.facebook.com/garybrandt2
User avatar
Gravity Jim
Posts: 2005
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 2:55 am
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Santa Rosa, CA

Re: Sound presents on small monitors

Post by Gravity Jim »

What kind of EQ are you applying to the kick/bass?

I get fat bass tones that are still audible on an iPhone speaker (have to,, writing tunes for video games) by rolling off everything under 40Hz, doing a slight dip at around 300, and a slight narrow boost at 1K.
Jim Bordner

MacPro 5,1 (3.33Ghz 12-core), 32g RAM, OS X 10.14.6 • MOTU DP 10.11 • Logic Pro X 10.2.5 • Waves Platinum, UAD-2, Slate Digital, Komplete, Omnisphere 2, LASS, CineSamples, Chipsounds, V Collection 5[color]
User avatar
Timeline
Posts: 4910
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Fort Atkinson Hebron, Wisconsin...
Contact:

Re: Sound presents on small monitors

Post by Timeline »

Its not eq Jim. its like there a phase trick plug or something i think is being used. I cn eq all day and the bass doesn't pop like this.
2009 Intel 12 core 3.46, 64GB, OSX.10.14.6, Mojave, DP11, MTPAV, Key-station 49,(2) RME FF800,
DA-3000 DSF-5.6mhz, Mackie Control. Hofa DDP Pro, FB@ http://www.facebook.com/garybrandt2
User avatar
mikehalloran
Posts: 15334
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:08 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Sillie Con Valley

Re: Sound presents on small monitors

Post by mikehalloran »

Most subs have a phase (polarity) reversal switch for this reason. Minor differences in placement will determine which position is best. Since the crossover is generally between 80–120 Hz, I'll play something in the 100 Hz range such as A-110, then flip the switch to whichever position is louder.

Here's my most un-scientific method for calibrating the balance between the sub and satellites:

Play some Steely Dan (anything from Asia or Gaucho is fine—heck, play both albums). Tweak till you get nice, clear definition of the bass and kits and the transition between the speakers is seamless. Again, it really doesn't much matter that there are different players, basses and kits since they all went through Roger Nichols's ears. It will sound great but you'll notice that there's no one, precise adjustment where it's perfect–the sweet spot is pretty wide.

Now, play some Beatles. My go-to for this is Get Back off the Let It Be album (I prefer the 2009 Remaster for this). If Paul's bass is also perfectly balanced, you're better at this than I am. It's generally barely audible to me. I will bring up the sub, and check against Steely Dan. There will be one spot where Sir Paul will be audible yet Steely Dan will not be overpowering. I can trust that sound and hasn't failed me yet.
DP 11.31; 828mkII FW, micro lite, M4, MTP/AV USB Firmware 2.0.1
2023 Mac Studio M2 8TB, 192GB RAM, OS Sonoma 14.5 b4, USB4 8TB external, M-Audio AIR 192|14, Mackie ProFxv3 6/10/12; 2012 MBPs Catalina, Mojave
IK-NI-Izotope-PSP-Garritan-Antares, LogicPro X, Finale 27.4, Dorico 5.2, Notion 6, Overture 5, TwistedWave, DSP-Q 5, SmartScore64 Pro, Toast 20 Pro
User avatar
Timeline
Posts: 4910
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Fort Atkinson Hebron, Wisconsin...
Contact:

Re: Sound presents on small monitors

Post by Timeline »

OK but your saying this effect is created in some mixes and not others? Its clear to me that on theatrical they are doing something and certainly on todays pop. It does not pull on the ears like completely out of phase would but somewhere in-between. What plug exists to accomplish this or is this a mastering secret?
2009 Intel 12 core 3.46, 64GB, OSX.10.14.6, Mojave, DP11, MTPAV, Key-station 49,(2) RME FF800,
DA-3000 DSF-5.6mhz, Mackie Control. Hofa DDP Pro, FB@ http://www.facebook.com/garybrandt2
User avatar
HCMarkus
Posts: 9799
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:01 am
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Rancho Bohemia, California
Contact:

Re: Sound presents on small monitors

Post by HCMarkus »

My son in law mixes a lot of pop and loves MaxxBass by Waves.
User avatar
Timeline
Posts: 4910
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Fort Atkinson Hebron, Wisconsin...
Contact:

Re: Sound presents on small monitors

Post by Timeline »

HCMarkus wrote:My son in law mixes a lot of pop and loves MaxxBass by Waves.
I'll try a demo
thnx
2009 Intel 12 core 3.46, 64GB, OSX.10.14.6, Mojave, DP11, MTPAV, Key-station 49,(2) RME FF800,
DA-3000 DSF-5.6mhz, Mackie Control. Hofa DDP Pro, FB@ http://www.facebook.com/garybrandt2
Post Reply