Gig Performer... Mainstage alternative?

[James Steele]

Just got an email from ILIO about this thing called Gig Performer. Looks like a VI host for live performance. I'm not a keyboard player, but thought I'd share in case anybody here wanted to check it out. It has a free 14-day demo.

http://www.ilio.com/products/deskew-sof ... gperformer

[stubbsonic]

If it lives up to the claims, it looks like it could be useful. At $149 (USD), you'll have to justify the added cost over Mainstage. It would help to know how it compares in terms of features and performance.

Another piece of software, Eigen D, has similar functionality. (It is free.)

http://www.eigenlabs.com/downloads/rele ... 74-stable/

A completely different developer had another piece of abandonware that I won't name here. At some point it broke and the developers just didn't do anything about. (But they still sold their brokenware for quite some time.)

Just out of curiosity, does Plogue Bidule do some or all of this?

[dhjdhj]

As a long time DP (and indeed just P, on a Mac Se 30 going way back) user who has benefited from having my questions answered here over the years, let me try to answer the questions about Gig Performer, as I happen to be one of the developers of that product.

In terms of living up to its claims, that comment is eerily familiar as each time we have announced an update (or indeed the original version last December) we immediately see lots of people saying, "if it works", "if it lives up to its claims", etc. Worse, when we try to answer, or even point to comments from others (e.g., on Keyboard Mag's musicforum, or on our own forums or the GigPerformer Facebook page), the assumption is that we made the comments up and/or we're somehow faking the whole thing. Too many conspiracy theorists out there

So the only really dependable way for users to determine whether it lives up to its claims is to actually try it. The fully functional trial (Mac and Windows) runs for 14 days so it's not hard to check it out.

I will say that I tour with several bands, one internationally (see http://securityproject.band) and since last November (yes, before GP was actually released) I have been using only Gig Performer with 4 keyboard controllers, MIDI pedals, an iPad running Lemur (yes, Gig Performer has full OSC support) and an Eigenharp Alpha. And no, EigenD does not have similar functionality unless you count JUST the ability to host plugins, which of course so does Bidule, Max and numerous other apps. But there's a lot more to supporting live performance musicians than simply hosting plugins and years of touring have given us many insights into what's really important.

Regarding the price, we're competitive with other 3rd party plugin hosts. Mainstage, like Logic, is an aberration in terms of pricing, since it's really subsidized by Apple. (I would note that most people here, including me, are probably running DP which costs way more than Logic!) But if you think about it, your average plugin is $50-200, popular suites (NI, Arturia, etc) are way more than that and so the price of Gig Performer itself is very reasonable, given what it brings to the table. At least we think so!


Regarding the comment about abandonware, clearly there are no guarantees in life. However, GP was created as a labor of love after we decided that none of the other products out there really worked the way we wanted. It wasn't intended to be a product but after some of our other musical colleagues saw it, it became clear that there actually was a need for "something better".
In particular, the deal that was announced yesterday where ILIO has taken us into their fold allows us to stay completely focused on further enhancing/improving Gig Performer so as long as users continue to be interested in what we're doing (which seems to be the case so far), we're not going anywhere!

[stubbsonic]

Thanks for coming on and helping us understand this product.

My comment on "if it lives up to its claims" is not meant as an attack. Any person who is shopping for software needs to know specifics about what software actually does-- and needs to kind of be a little discerning when reading introductory blurbs. I wasn't referring to anything specific about your software. I'd not heard of it until this thread.

Would you mind describing what Gig Performer does (in addition to hosting plugins) that make it more useful and powerful than MS or Eigen D or Bidule?

I certainly would not fight you on the price. $149 seems reasonable for a powerful tool and sometimes you need something powerful (like DP) to get the job done right.

My comment about the abandonware is unrelated to your product. I brought it up because the first and last time I used my computer for a live gig it was with this other software. I spent weeks preparing my sounds and it never really worked right. Had to do some stupid workarounds-- then I went back to using a workstation keyboard. I'm much happier now.

[dhjdhj]

No, sorry - I didn't mean that you were attacking. I was noting that when I last responded to questions, we were getting "attacked" basically by people not believing us or claiming we were trolling.

EigenD is a very specialized environment, no good to you unless you're actually playing an Eigenharp. Bidule can certainly host plugins (as can Max) but you still have to create patches to control what it does. The ability to just be a host for a plugin is almost the least important part of Gig Performer compared to how it lets you manage and control those plugins for a live performance.

In terms of approach, MS is certainly the more appropriate application with which to make comparisons, as MS is also providing an environment specifically tailored for live performance (as opposed to using tools like Bidule or Max to develop one, and trust me, that's a lot of work, I've been there!)

While GP has similar goals to MS, we (and I guess our users!) feel our product. is both easier and works better. By the way, GP is also cross-platform, not Mac only.

We get a lot of feedback from users, one posted the following on our FB page just yesterday:
(Please don't attack me now, I promise, I'm not making these quotes up You can use Google to find many other similar comments )

I downloaded the trial version tonight to check it out, I'm honestly blown away! I loaded keyscape, Hollywood strings full orchestra patch, a Albion one pad, and a exs (reverse piano)
My CPU barely went over 50%. In mainstage which I typically use, I cannot run keyscape, Albion one, and a EWQL instrument in the same concert without hitting 100% quickly.
I'm excited to test it out some more and even more excited for the full version. Thank you so much!

We also started a "stories from the trenches" section on our own forums and there are a few interesting comments there as well (see http://www.gigperformer.com/forums/foru ... e-trenches)

If you just want to see a list of features, take a look at http://www.gigperformer.com/features-and-benefits.html where we describe some of them. (It's a bit out of date now as we've added a lot more since that page was written, it's getting hard to keep everything current)

If you ask me for my favorite features, I would say (1) Patch Persist which allows sounds from previous rackspaces (our approximation to what others might call patches) to well, persist, if you're still holding keys down when you switch to another rackspace, (2) the visual approach we take to connecting plugins together as opposed to a channel strip model, (3) predictive loading so that you can still do glitchless switching from one set of plugins to the next even if your entire setlist requires way more RAM than is available on your machine, (4) multi-group widgets and (5) full OSC support that not only lets you view/control GP front panels from a remote tablet but you can also use OSC to actually play and control the plugins, even though most plugins have no OSC support at all, (6) rackspace variations and (7) you can actually run separate instances of GP simultaneously so that multiple people in a band can have complete control over their own instruments or you can dedicate instances for certain instruments, e.g. some users will create an instance with just one rackspace configured as a hammond organ and tied to a dedicated MIDI controller, then they use the other instance to provide all different sounds for different sounds as needed.

Incidentally, it's not only suitable for keyboard players, but it's also fully usable by guitarists, vocalists and in fact our FOH engineer (who also does sound for some rather well known bands such as Stickmen) uses GP to handle all the effects processing instead of using the mixer with remote control to switch sets of effects during the show.

I understand completely the reliability concern but I would say that if you "spent weeks preparing [your] sounds" with GP I would expect you to have zero problems on stage. We get completely the reliability issue, the last thing you need is to be stressed out during a show wondering if your gear might suddenly fail on you. Again, no guarantees in life (computers can die!) but if everything is working for you in rehearsal, it won't take long for you to be comfortable with it on stage as well.

Yeah, I miss my Kronos 88, my Nord C2D, my Voyager (nothing beats just turning that cutoff knob!) and my Prophet 12 but when you're touring or working different sessions in different studios every day (the other big market for GP), it's a hell of a lot easier to setup/teardown a few controllers than all that other stuff.

Again, I would encourage you to pull it down and try it yourself (gigperform.com/downloads). There is a very complete manual which was written by the guy who wrote THE book on the original DX7 and reading through that will probably get you up to speed with GP's abilities quickly.

If you have any specific questions, also try asking on our forums as we're starting to have a nice core group of users who are ready to answer questions (and of course we do as well!)

[stubbsonic]

Thanks. That's fascinating and super helpful. Best of luck!!

If my needs change, I'll be checking it out!!

I hope others on this forum will be giving it a close look! Sounds incredible.

[Michael Canavan]

David, Gig Performer looks pretty cool, I'm just wondering about connectivity?
My biggest gripe with Mainstage isn't the CPU hit, it's the lack of ability to run as an AU/VST or as a ReWire slave while still hosting AU. In General it's the biggest issue I have with all hosts, the lack of real ability to work inside a DAW like DP, Live loses it's VST hosting when ReWired, Mainstage simply doesn't work as a slave, none of them expect the now defunct Kore ran as a stand alone performance tool and as a VST/AU. I would love it if some developer took up the reigns, NI are off on some Maschine tangent that isn't going to ever be like a better Kore. Komplete Kontrol isn't a replacement.

I play live mainly using Live for backing tracks clip firing etc. with Amplitube, I've given up on trying to play keys in Live, since nothing is developed anymore that works with multiple VSTs like what you describe Gig Performer doing. Just saying, Rewire support or Gig Performer as an AU/VST plug in and 100% you would have a customer. I can imagine it loaded as a V-Rack would make for super lean live set in DP.

[daniel.sneed]

Just curious, dhjdhj: will Gig Performer host Logic instruments?

Along years, before Alchemy turned to abandonware (and Logiconlyware), I've built a huge patch library, which I miss.
I do own Logic and MS, but can't stand to work with, and slaving to DP is a mess.

[Michael Canavan]

Just curious, dhjdhj: will Gig Performer host Logic instruments?

Along years, before Alchemy turned to abandonware (and Logiconlyware), I've built a huge patch library, which I miss.
I do own Logic and MS, but can't stand to work with, and slaving to DP is a mess.

I can answer that, I think you could too if you thought it out. No, no third party application is going to be able to host Logic instruments, Apple doesn't make AU versions of them, they're embedded into Mainstage, Garageband, and Logic.

[dhjdhj]

Yes, that's correct. Apple's plugins are proprietary, much like MOTU's plugins that come with DP only work with DP.

By the way, GP barely comes with any plugins (although we do have some "interesting" things in the pipeline). We took the position that there's little point in our developing plugins that are easily available elsewhere, whether free or paid. It's not our expertise and we're not going to be able to compete with synths/effects made by companies like NI, Arturia, iZotope and so on. We feel that most users, outside those who use only the internal stuff in Logic/MS or DP will want to use their favorite 3rd party plugins anyway. We will fill in some important "gaps" where we haven't been able to find suitable 3rd party plugins for very specific tasks though.

[James Steele]

We took the position that there's little point in our developing plugins that are easily available elsewhere, whether free or paid. It's not our expertise...

I commend you for this. It's a very sound and wise position. Too many times I've seen companies attempt to expand to be all things to all users and as the saying goes they become a "jack-of-all-trades but master of none."

It's better to be the best in a niche that really addresses the needs of professionals than be just another of many players in a larger space. You can focus on the product and stay responsive to the needs of pros in a way bigger developers cannot. Reliability is at the top of that last.

Final reason it's a good strategy... you want your niche to be one that can make you money but not SO much money that the big boys move in to try and get in on that segment. Apple is so big, I don't think they can really care the same way about Mainstage.

[dhjdhj]

Yeah, thanks. We will be putting out a few special purpose plugins where we've identified needs that have not been (in our opinion) adequately (or even at all) addressed elsewhere.

[daniel.sneed]

I can answer that, I think you could too if you thought it out. No, no third party application is going to be able to host Logic instruments, Apple doesn't make AU versions of them, they're embedded into Mainstage, Garageband, and Logic.

Of course, I am aware, but I'm still hoping for a miracle... Well, not this time...

[bayswater]

Of course, I am aware, but I'm still hoping for a miracle... Well, not this time...

Not any time. You'd have to be wary of anything that claimed to play Logic instruments. Even if it works, it would be at risk of Apple making changes in a Logic update that kills it.

[daniel.sneed]

Well, these are words of wisdom, Bayswater...