828Mk3 Firewire vs. 828Mk3 Hybrid

[yoyomama]

Me again. Not really vs. but are there any differences between the two units except for the addition of USB? I can't seem to find an answer anywhere.

Thanks in advance!

[mikehalloran]

The FW only version has been discontinued for quite awhile now - late 2010, IIRC.

The FireWire protocol has been on life support as far as Apple is concerned for years now. There are no real world advantages over usb2 as far as I can tell regarding MOTU interfaces. Unless you are offered a great buy on the FW only version, I would go with the hybrid.

[yoyomama]

The FW only version has been discontinued for quite awhile now - late 2010, IIRC.

The FireWire protocol has been on life support as far as Apple is concerned for years now. There are no real world advantages over usb2 as far as I can tell regarding MOTU interfaces. Unless you are offered a great buy on the FW only version, I would go with the hybrid.

I hear you. My only thinking is that I borrowed a MOTU 8pre for awhile and performance was really solid with PT HD9, it was all good. Arguments can be made about conversion & the pres I suppose but I had no issues with the performance of it. I've never tried MOTU USB gear before so I don't know. I just figured if I'm going MOTU, I know that Firewire(at least in the 8pre) was solid.

[mikehalloran]

The FW vs USB is Apple's issue, not MOTU's. The hybrid devices appear to perform well ether way.

Back in the PPC days, there were serious issues with using the USB only interface - you really needed FW. That changed when Apple switched to Intel CPUs.

The only current Apple products left w/ FW are the Mac Pro to be officially discontinued in a couple weeks, A TB-FW adapter and their TB monitor which has that adapter built in -- it, like the stand alone adapter, does not support the full FW spec.

FW has hit a Star Trek moment: "it's dead, Jim"

Buy the hybrid and hook it up however is more convenient to you. This will depend on the rest of your hardware, of course.

[yoyomama]

I get it for sure but I've tried a few other Firewire & USB interfaces with this same Mac Pro and Pro Tools 9HD and have had varied results. All firewire/usb devices and their drivers are not created equal is the opinion that I'm sticking with. I wouldn't go into MOTU USB blindly for what I want to do, I know MOTU's Firewire worked for me though. I'm not opposed to the Hybrid stuff, was just asking if there were any other differences in the 828Mk3 Firewire and 828Mk3 Hybrid. Thanks for the reply.

The FW vs USB is Apple's issue, not MOTU's. The hybrid devices appear to perform well ether way.

Back in the PPC days, there were serious issues with using the USB only interface - you really needed FW. That changed when Apple switched to Intel CPUs.

The only current Apple products left w/ FW are the Mac Pro to be officially discontinued in a couple weeks, A TB-FW adapter and their TB monitor which has that adapter built in -- it, like the stand alone adapter, does not support the full FW spec.

FW has hit a Star Trek moment: "it's dead, Jim"

Buy the hybrid and hook it up however is more convenient to you. This will depend on the rest of your hardware, of course.

[mikehalloran]

How about the fact that these were introduced in 2010 and no one is complaining about the difference nearly 4 years later? There. Is that good enough for you?

it is possible to way over think this non-issue.

[yoyomama]

Seriously, I'm not looking to argue at all. I just wondered if there were differences between the two units, Hybrid & the older Firewire only piece. I realize Firewire is a dinosaur. It's all obsolete the day you buy it. As far as other's people's experiences with gear…I have better real world results knowing what personally works and doesn't work for me. I'm not saying that MOTU's USB performance is worse than their Firewire with my rig at all, maybe not. I just wondered if there was a difference between the two units at all.

[jggorman]

The 828 mk3 Firewire only version's price is very low. Does anyone have experience with the cheap Firewire to USB adapters? I want to try to get it to work Monterey and even though I have firewire on my mac 2009 4,1, I haven't had luck with firewire devices since moving to Monterey. The 828 mk3 has features I cannot find on any other device under $200 (used). I want it adat expander for another interface and to accept RCA SPIDF, TOSLINK SPIDIF and bidirectional analog in and out. I figure it has limited time to work with computers, so I would also like it do these things in standalone mode if possible.

[James Steele]

...no one is complaining about the difference nearly 4 years later?

14 years, right?

[mikehalloran]

...no one is complaining about the difference nearly 4 years later?

14 years, right?

Does anyone have experience with the cheap Firewire to USB adapters?

There is no such thing as a FireWire to USB adapter that works, cheap or otherwise.

The Apple FireWire to Thunderbolt 1/2 adapter exists as does the Apple Thunderbolt 2 to Thunderbolt 3. The pair runs $70–$80 last I checked.

If the FW device is working, these adapters will connect you to an Intel or Apple Silicon Mac.

[jggorman]

Thanks Mike. I was looking into usb-2 because I have a mac pro 4,1 from 2009 that is hobbling along much like me her owner. It has firewire, but since the move to Monterey with OpenCore, my firewire devices aren't working (probably drivers, but who knows). I want to get a Moto 828 mk3 because it seems to be the only device that may do exactly what I want—but only the FW version is in my price range of under $200. I suppose if the drivers work with the adapters, they are likely to work without them.

I tried the adapters with a device that needs power and it didn't work on a usb-c pci card I have. I am guessing it is because that card's USB-C port does not supply enough power. It's the Ableconn PU31-AC-2 and the company that makes it indicate a way to run sata power from the motherboard to the card and then it will supply more power, not sure if it will work. Maybe there is a powered usb-c hub that will work. Just trying to keep my options open for the day that I do not have firewire, but I guess I am over thinking it. I have firewire now and the drivers and software work with Monterey, so I should be good to go. [update] I just bought a Motu 828 mk3 fw, if it does everything I am hoping it will do, I will be very impressed: simultaneous analog in and out, rca spdif in, optical spdif in and out, all patched to in and out on adat channels to another device).

[mikehalloran]

…

I tried the adapters with a device that needs power and it didn't work on a usb-c pci card I have. I am guessing it is because that card's USB-C port does not supply enough power.

USB-C is a port that supports many protocols but you should never assume that any particular one is supported until you've read the specs—if they don't say Thunderbolt, it's not supported. There's no way to add Thunderbolt to a Mac that doesn't already have it from Apple.

[update] I just bought a Motu 828 mk3 fw, if it does everything I am hoping it will do, I will be very impressed: simultaneous analog in and out, rca spdif in, optical spdif in and out, all patched to in and out on adat channels to another device).

Great. Glad you have it solved!

[jggorman]

If I ever need thunderbolt 3, I would look into the Gigabyte GC-Titan Ridge Card for my Mac Pro 4,1 > 5,1 running OpenCore to see if that is a solution. Having said that, I am not sure how much money I am saving at this point holding on to a computer that is that old considering all the hacks and upgrades that I've put into it. Then there is the AVX2, for which I've never heard anyone getting around. I am just getting too old for doing internal work on my computer (can't see well and hands less dexterous). I've knocked off a lot of those tiny resistors on things including my motherboard, so I can't trust anything with my computer completely. I'm always like, "is this problem because of that missing capacitor or resistor on my motherboard." It really is a miracle my machine is still functional.

[James Steele]

Gotta say... it's not always easy and requires updating some software... probably some you "lose" along the way, but Apple Silicon is "the way."

applesilicon.gif (3.48 MiB) Viewed 870 times

[mikehalloran]

If I ever need thunderbolt 3, I would look into the Gigabyte GC-Titan Ridge Card for my Mac Pro 4,1 > 5,1 running OpenCore to see if that is a solution. …

Be careful what you wish for.

I've read a number of these reports and am still waiting to read the first one where data throughput achieves 480kB/s — the theoretical speed limit of Fast USB 2. SATA III over a USB 3 card gets you 525–560kB/s without Open Core.

Lots of talk of connecting Apple's ancient 2560 by 1440 Thunderbolt display (same 2K specs as the LED Cinema display that connects directly, BTW) but it doesn't work with any of the displays that require TB such as the 5K LG — at least, no one appears to have pulled it off. I have no idea how many threads there are on this over at MacRumors.

One can connect a 4K display with the right GPU.