Thinking of buying DP7, but had a couple of questions..

[Brian Stone]

Hello MOTU folks!

Had a question about DP7. The DP7 website is a bit thin on specific details and I was curious about a few things.

Can someone tell me what kind of content is provided with DP7?

I realize the Nano Sampler is designed for light duty work, but its not clear if it comes with some instruments, or are you meant to use it exclusively as a simple sampler tool? Same question for the Model 12 instrument. Anyone know how many sampled instruments come with DP7?

Also, curious about Loops. One of the other apps I'm considering is bundled with a ton of loops. Actually, most of the apps seem to support loop composition, which I'd like to do. So... I guess two questions: a) does DP7 provide loop composition tools (loop browsing, drag and drop use of loops) and b) does it come with loops? if yes, how big is the library? do I have to buy loops separately?

Thanks!

Brian

[MIDI Life Crisis]

I believe the Nano Sampler is void of samples. I also think it is drag and drop but not really for heavy lifting. As for the other VIs MOTU includes, I have yet to use any in a pro production setting. I could probably get away with it if my work called for a thin electronic sound, but in general I find them pretty anemic.

Not really sure about loops, but you might look at MachFive for both sampling and looping. Also, UVI Workstation could be useful to you.

Again, it depends on what your planning on using it for. As a DAW I think DP is tops, but I use 3rd party VIs (with the exception of MX4) and use MachFive as well as Kontakt, UVI, Korg Legacy and a few hardware synths.

[Tritonemusic]

Actually, Nanosampler does come with some samples (at least in DP5.13). I don't remember being too impressed by them, but I seem to recall a forum member mentioning that he found some of them to be useful.

[FMiguelez]

.

If, as you said, you will be dealing with loops mostly, then check out the apps MLC told you about. They are DP's "missing complements"... they are not bundled within the app, but you can get them separately, and I think UVI workstation is either free or very cheap.

You will need those extra tools to work with loops successfully with DP (loops are not its best feature). But then you will have the BEST DAW on earth and a great sampler (Mach Five).

[MIDI Life Crisis]

MIa cupla re: Nano Sampler samples. Sorry, MOTU.

[Tritonemusic]

I think I read a post where several people mentioned that, for whatever reason, they didn't have any Nanosampler presets available in the menu...

[FutureLegends]

I suppose that 'other' DAW is Logic. And yes it comes with tons and tons of loops and bundled stuff. Some of it really good. It's loop browser is also very handy. But is only for Apple Loops if I'm coorect...

Though very convenient and might be good for inspiration and songwriting etc. But for serious stuff, do you really want to use loops that everyone and his mother has? If not you have to go 3rd party loops anyway and then the bundled stuff is moot.
It's included VIs are more useful than the ones that come with DP too.
So for included VIs and Loops Logic is the better choice but for pretty much ANYTHING else DP is the winner in my book. Can't stand using Logic (which I assume you're refering to) but sometimes I wish DP had some of the loop and VI capabilities of Logic.

But when push comes to shove I'd choose DP 9 times outta 10 over Logic. I'm not that loop savvy though...

[MIDI Life Crisis]

FWIW, and at the risk of getting flamed for my opinion and going o/t, if you are "composing" with loops your probably wasting your $$$ on something like DP. Not that it's superior plugins are going to be useful, but if you lack the creative drive required to develop your own music, then you probably want shortcuts in terms of the final product as well.

IMO, creating music is creating art, and there is NO short cut in that pursuit. You either take the time to do it or you suffer from the plague of sounding like someone else (especially by using pre-recorded loops). If that works for you, go for it. It just doesn't work for me. In fact, just use garageband and call it a life.

[Brian Stone]

I'm sorry to hear that some of you think that loop composition is not making real music. If you must know, I enjoy deconstructing, and processing pre-recorded material, which I find to be an artistically satisfying effort. As far as compositional methods go, I like to use lots of sources. I'm not really planning to use the loops AS IS, but I can relate to why one might poo-poo the idea.

I was just at a buddy's house who has Logic Studio. It apparently, comes with over 20,000 loops with that nifty loop browser, so loads of interesting material to work with.

Thank you for your considerate endorsements of DP. I wouldn't expect anything else in a forum dedicated to celebrating it.

I was also considering Cubase 5. They have some really nifty features and a loop library and a browser as well.

Good news is there are a lot of amazing tools to chose from these days. Seems like the ony thing I'm not that turned on by is Pro Tools 8. I'm not much of an audio tracking-type engineer.

I do wish that DP7 had more and higher quality plug-ins. It seems that users seem to universally agree that there are a few good ones, but that they mostly rely on 3rd party software.

I don't have a lot of cash, so buying $3000 worth of plug-ins is not in my near future. This is why less expensive apps are so interesting.

Tracktion 3 looks interesting and its under $200.. doesn't have a lot of plug-ins though..

Thanks again!

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Actually, it's the VIs some of us don't use. The plugins are great.

As for re-recording, de/reconstructing extant music, it is engineering, not composition.

Happy engineering. By all means, get Logic.

[newrigel]

I'm sorry to hear that some of you think that loop composition is not making real music.

It isn't! Someone else played it so your not composing it... your just navigating through it! IMO it's a huge difference.
This site is teaming with composers so your going to get that !

[Larry Mal]

Well, I thought I'd jump in here since I use Logic and Digital Performer (but never Cubase, I've used Nuendo a couple of times). Just to qualify.

Digital Performer is an absolute joy to use. The latest version is fantastic. The workflow, the plug ins, it's all very good. I can't imagine not using it.

Logic is great too. I use it more than DP. The loops are OK, I guess, I won't judge how a person performs music, but I'd only use them in an "emergency"- if I had to construct something fast and speed was the main consideration. I will say that there is a ton of Foley with Logic, and it's all pretty good as well. Again, for speed considerations, but I'm glad it's on a hard drive.

The plug ins are roughly comparable, some things are better in DP than Logic, and vice versa. Here, though, is going to be a theme you will encounter with me: you're going to eventually use a lot of third party plugs, in my experience. But even if you don't, you'll be well served by either's mixing and mastering plugs.

You'll notice that no one on the MOTUNation forum here will say anything very good about the virtual instruments in Digital Performer. They are in fact a lot better in Logic, but again, you'll be wanting third party ones sooner or later.

The sampler in Logic is a lot better. But when I recently bought some good samples, I made sure that they were in the Kontakt format precisely so I could have them in Digital Performer as well, so you can see what I think of that. The built in samples in Logic, are by and large, garbage.

They both have guitar amp modelers now! And I didn't want that in either of them. This is an area in which, again, I want to go with third parties- what I want out of a DAW is quality and stability, and workflow.

Basically, you'll get more immediate bang for the buck with Logic. But in the long run, you'll find yourself expanding away from that package and into other instruments. Logic is probably better for loops as well, if that really means that much to you. And I've got to give it up for Wave Burner, one of the other applications in Logic. It's a great mastering software, and a lot of fun.

Digital Performer is a wonderful, pro level app as well. Awesome for MIDI, for scoring, for tracking and mixing. In the end, if you go with DP, you'll be well served, even if you have to buy some other VI's, and something for making loops with.

An embarrassment of riches, is what we're confronted with by these two applications. Frankly, probably with Cubase as well.

But, not Pro Tools. Good luck!

[BKK-OZ]

Someone else played it so your not composing it... your just navigating through it! IMO it's a huge difference. !

Uhm, methinks you need a history lesson . Start here, by reading up on Musique concrète.

[Larry Mal]

Well, anyway, I'll say that if DP went 64 bit before Logic, and offered stability and unlimited RAM for mixing and composing, I'd drop Logic and its loops in a heartbeat. I already looked into Cubase, but no 64 bit on Mac, and I bought Digital Performer 7, but it doesn't handle CPU or RAM better than Logic- actually, it does a little.

And since you are here, why not post on the Cubase and Logic Pro Help forums? Friendly folks on both.

[wurliuchi]

I think two of you have spent too much time over at GS lately and are now being rude and insulting to people who don't deserve it. I envy people who can make original music out of cut up loops and beats and other such things, it truly is art. Some of it is insanely great. I sure can't do it. I know one thing, they have just as much right to do their thing and to ask questions as you do yours, so back off.