Converting 24bit/48k bounce to 16bit/44.1k?

[James Steele]

Okay guys... this is embarrassing, but I can't really remember a workflow for this, as I was focused for years on a live project and kind of getting more deeply back into recording.

I used to work at 24bit/44.1k, but changed it up to 24bit/48k. So I did a bounce to disk and ended up with a 24bit/48k stereo WAV file. Of course, if I want to burn that to a CD, I'm going to need to convert it to 16bit/44.1k. I'm trying to remember the best way to do this.

I actually brought the file back into a DP project and then selected it in the Soundbites window and used the Convert option to make it into 16bit/44.1k but that's really not ideal it seems, because at the very least I didn't apply dither going from 24bits to 16bits. So help me out here... LOL

One thought was I could do the bounce applying 16-bit dither while bouncing to the 24-bit file, and then use the Soundbites Window to convert the file to 16-bit which I'm thinking might simply lop off the empty bits? Then do a sample rate conversion?

Ugh... I forgot. Also wondering if maybe I ought to get some sort of separate standalone app to handle the dither/conversion process? I've really forgotten a lot about this step. Jog my memory please!

[EMRR]

I always bounce with “add to project” or whatever it’s called, then do any conversions in the soundbites window.

[James Steele]

I always bounce with “add to project” or whatever it’s called, then do any conversions in the soundbites window.

Copy that. So if you're planning to convert from 24bit to 16bit, I assume you put a dither plug-in on the master fader during the bounce, and the subsequent conversion from 24bit to 16bit lops off the empty bits?

[bayswater]

I always bounce with “add to project” or whatever it’s called, then do any conversions in the soundbites window.

Copy that. So if you're planning to convert from 24bit to 16bit, I assume you put a dither plug-in on the master fader during the bounce, and the subsequent conversion from 24bit to 16bit lops off the empty bits?

Can’t you just check the Dither command in the Audio menu? (Dither section, Chapter 49)

[James Steele]

I always bounce with “add to project” or whatever it’s called, then do any conversions in the soundbites window.

Copy that. So if you're planning to convert from 24bit to 16bit, I assume you put a dither plug-in on the master fader during the bounce, and the subsequent conversion from 24bit to 16bit lops off the empty bits?

Can’t you just check the Dither command in the Audio menu? (Dither section, Chapter 49)

Yeah. Wasn't sure thought that that will dither 24-bit properly for converting to a 16-bit file later? If my bounce is to a 24-bit file and I dither it... it dithers for a 24-bit depth file, right? Subsequent lopping off of 8 bits doesn't have the same result, no? Seems like I need to use a mastering plug and engage 16 bit dither. I used to use WaveArts Final plug for that. I have to dig in some more.

[primeevolutionary]

I convert the Sample Rate in the soundbites window either creating new soundbites or replacing them as is applicable for that project.

For Sample Format, I'll add that soundbite to a track in Tracks, select the soundbite and Bounce to Disk Import set to Add to Soundbites Window and having an active dither plugin on the Master track in the post fader placement.

My favorite dither plugin is PSP Audioware's Xenon. I go back and forth between the presets, but use the Pure Dither preset the most. I often tweak the settings after choosing the preset.

I can't hear the dither, but, a lot of smart people have at least convinced me that it can't hurt and might prevent nasties.

[James Steele]

For Sample Format, I'll add that soundbite to a track in Tracks, select the soundbite and Bounce to Disk Import set to Add to Soundbites Window and having an active dither plugin on the Master track in the post fader placement.

Thanks for this. But correct me if I'm wrong. I'm not in front of DP, but if your project format is 24-bit, and you do a bounce you'll end up with a 24-bit file as DP can't convert bit depth on the fly during a bounce. So I'm assuming just prior to the bounce you change the project's default sample format from 24-bit to 16-bit. THEN you do the bounce and end up with the 16-bit file, yes?

[FMiguelez]

Copy that. So if you're planning to convert from 24bit to 16bit, I assume you put a dither plug-in on the master fader during the bounce, and the subsequent conversion from 24bit to 16bit lops off the empty bits?

Can’t you just check the Dither command in the Audio menu? (Dither section, Chapter 49)

The last time I tested the Dither command in the Audio menu, it did not work correctly in DP9.52, and unless it has been explicitly fixed, it may still be broken. IIRC, it applies dither correctly to 16-bit files, but not 24-bit files. And this behaviour was mimicked by the MW limiter as well.

Has anyone tested it with DP 10 or 11?

[FMiguelez]

For Sample Format, I'll add that soundbite to a track in Tracks, select the soundbite and Bounce to Disk Import set to Add to Soundbites Window and having an active dither plugin on the Master track in the post fader placement.

Thanks for this. But correct me if I'm wrong. I'm not in front of DP, but if your project format is 24-bit, and you do a bounce you'll end up with a 24-bit file as DP can't convert bit depth on the fly during a bounce. So I'm assuming just prior to the bounce you change the project's default sample format from 24-bit to 16-bit. THEN you do the bounce and end up with the 16-bit file, yes?

I don't think that's necessary, James. You can keep your project at 24 or 32 bits, and the bounce bit depth can be chosen in the BTD dialgo box (it can be anything, IIRC). What is important is that the bit depth in your final limiter matches that setting.

If you were freezing, merging or recording in real-time, then yes, you should change the setting in the transport to whatever you want the resulting file to be.

[James Steele]

I don't think that's necessary, James. You can keep your project at 24 or 32 bits, and the bounce bit depth can be chosen in the BTD dialgo box (it can be anything, IIRC). What is important is that the bit depth in your final limiter matches that setting.

Right... I was thinking a realtime bounce. I need to look harder in the bounce dialog, because I don't remember seeing an option to bounce to a different bit depth. I must have just missed it because that certainly simplifies things. And it makes sense, because I must have done that before. I don't remember it being that difficult. I got consumed with a live project for several years and am admittedly rusty on DP. Thanks, Miguel!

[mikehalloran]

James, you have TwistedWave. Re-flow the bounced file—you can change bit depth and sample rate—and Save As. If you are hesitant, make a copy of the file first.

Here you can see that I am running both operations in the Batch Processing window. The top line changes the bit depth while the second one converts the sample rate. If you have Allow overwrites unchecked, select a different destination folder. On sample rate conversion, check Resample or the pitch will change.

In the example below, the 56 minute file took 4 seconds to convert.



Ok… I tried attaching those graphics in three different browsers, inline and not. The button turned green afer I uploaded and neither is over 500k. I don't think it's me.

[James Steele]

Ok… I tried attaching those graphics in three different browsers, inline and not. The button turned green afer I uploaded and neither is over 500k. I don't think it's me.

Yeah... not good. The board software was updated today from 3.3.9 to 3.3.9. I paid someone to do it for me. I notified them and hopefully they will be on the case soon. You may see the board go down for a bit while it's being fixed. It's not good... all the existing posted images appear broken.

[James Steele]

Ok… I tried attaching those graphics in three different browsers, inline and not. The button turned green afer I uploaded and neither is over 500k. I don't think it's me.

It wasn't you. Fortunately things are fixed and it appears all that was lost were any attempted attachments after the board was completed at roughly 4:42pm PST. That probably wasn't many. If you want to edit your message and reattach the images it should work now. Whew! That was crazy. Fortunately, Alec... who is the guy... was on it and got things going again! It was a freak thing that shouldn't have happened.

[mikehalloran]

Doesn't matter if I drag the image or try to add it,

Error
It was not possible to determine the dimensions of the image. Please verify that the URL you entered is correct.

[mikehalloran]

Tried New Topic, New Post in Safari, FireFox and Chrome: same error except that in FireFox, I was allowed to attach one instead of three.

Error

It was not possible to determine the dimensions of the image. Please verify that the URL you entered is correct.

Update: FireFox lets me add .png but not .jpg.

Email on the way. It includes a third graphic (below) showing that I re-bounced it in DP. The file was one I was working on is a 56 minute holiday concert for the Mt. View Community Orchestra of which she is the director.

Total conversion time TwistedWave: 4 seconds
Total Bounce time DP: 23 minutes, 18 seconds

I didn't bother doing the conversion in QuickTime or DSP-Q — don't imagine that either would be as fast or as slow as the above.