Stuck MIDI notes...arrrrrgggggghhhhhh!

gseibert · Post by **gseibert** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 9:40 am

Does anyone have this problem who is using a Firewire device with MIDI built in? Could it be unique to USB devices? Just a thought.

Tobor · Post by **Tobor** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 9:44 am

markwayne wrote:

I am also avoiding DP for anything MIDI related for now.

Wayne, check your PMs.

markwayne · Post by **markwayne** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 10:24 am

Ooops. Sorry, just saw that your original post lists that you are using the latest drivers (1.31). Have you thought about downgrading and seeing if it helps? It has made my stuck notes problems a little better.

Wayne

labman · Post by **labman** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 5:37 pm

We get stuck notes with 4.52 without DP even in playback. Just having some MIDI tracks record enabled can generate oddities. Oddly enough this has come out of nowhere for us, (no changes to the mac software/hardware at all) and only happens to MIDI tracks not VI's.

Regards,
DLevy
mgr, Legacy Lab

2XG5, OSX 10.3.5, DP 4.52, 4.5GB, 3 MIDI express USBs, 1 MIDI Express XT's, 2408mkIII, HD192, etc.

RROY · Post by **RROY** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 7:19 pm

Has anyone tried using MIDI Monitor to see what info is going thru your MIDI device. MIDI Monitor is available from snoize.com as a free download. It might provide you with some usefull information.

markwayne · Post by **markwayne** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 9:26 am

Yeah, I've looked at the MIDI stream to make sure nothing's going on with my MIDI setup. I even went so far as to disconnect everything except one controller keyboard from the MTP's inputs. No help. The problem is happening inside of DP. As I have stated several times over, every other sequencing package I have installed on my computer works great for MIDI. Something in the way DP tries to channelize or "time sync" MIDI, combined with MTC and beat clocks seems to be the source of the problem. It could be the added overhead of that MIDI time stamping stuff in DP . . . I don't know. Since downgrading my MTP drivers and going back to DP 4.52, things seem to be much better. However, I still don't feel comfortable using DP for MIDI for important stuff at the moment because the symptoms seem to be able to come out of nowhere. Audio is, as others have pointed out, no problem.

The easiest way I've found to check for these symptoms is to set DP to use patch through with auto-channelize and time sync checked. Then make sure to send beat clocks to all cables on your MIDI interface and send MTC to two or three devices in your rig. Record-enable a track and record some MIDI data using a percussive sound. Quantize it so it plays back as tightly as possible. Now hit the overdub button and start layering more parts. If you have the symptoms I'm talking about, a minute or so in the timing will start to go to hell as you start to hear all of your previous takes getting shifted around. Eventually, you will start to hear phasing and flams as notes are delayed and then triggered on top of each other. If pushed far enough the MIDI buffer will fill up and all MIDI will stop until you hit stop and then you will get the "machine gun" effect as the buffer empties all at once.

I'm going to do some more testing over the next couple of days and, if DP continues to behave, I'll move DP back into my production workflow. In the past this seems to always be the key to making the problem resurface. If things are cool for a couple of weeks, I'll try going back to 4.61.

onward and sideways,
Wayne

Hideout · Post by **Hideout** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 9:42 am

Do any of you guys ever experience DP "losing contact" with the MTP A/V? I've been having this happen to me quite a bit lately. All of a sudden, DP just stops sending MIDI and all the MIDI outs get italicized - and sometimes I also get stuck notes when this happens.

williemyers · Post by **williemyers** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 11:59 am

more to follow on this later but, as another had mentioned above, the addition of a USB/2 card was a bust. that is, the hanging notes thing was solved, but just for a few days. it's baaaaaaaaccckkk!
also, tried backgrading to MIDI driver 1.24, but no luck.

BTW, I'm actually starting (since 4.6, I think) to get a related problem potentially *worse* than hanging notes. That's MIDI "bombs"...a random note that DP spits in to the mix on playback, that somehow manages to hit my MIDI rack and produce about a 110db note! (which hangs). these "bombs" are random pitch, random assignment (will go to anyone of aobut 8 boxes that I have hooked up) and willo even go to boxes that have *NO* tracks assigned to them! these "bombs" are close to blowing out my speaker drivers. Anyone had this occur? As I said, seems like this little MIDI gem has started with DP 4.6 (and now 4.61).

I'm thinking of backgrading to DP 4.5(2) as I currently can'[t get a single pass out of a DP sequence and, as I mentioned before, I'm running *ONLY* MIDI, with just a single stereo audio track to ley off in to. NO plugs, NO audio tracks...just MIDI. hmmmm....

Also worth noting that I seem to recall the first posts about about 1 1/2 years ago. It's shameful that MOTU hasn't put this at the *TOP* of their "fix-it" list. Or, if they have, *we* haven't been toldd about it.

The idea of switching my major app (DP) after 20+ years is scary. The idea of being unable to deliver my clients a demo/mix on time, because I currently can't get a single pass out of a DP sequence to lay off properly, is even scarier. It's tragic that us long time (read: "loyal") users should have to consider jumping ship just to get MOTU's attention.

bill

markwayne · Post by **markwayne** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 6:20 am

. . . as another had mentioned above, the addition of a USB/2 card was a bust. that is, the hanging notes thing was solved, but just for a few days. it's baaaaaaaaccckkk!

Yeah, my USB2 PCI card arrived last week, but I've held off on installing it because of mixed reports on success and I've got way too much work to catch up on at the moment.

I like the designation "MIDI bomb". I have also had extra (sticky) notes show up on unassigned channels in the past. The reason I never thought to call them MIDI bombs is that I tend to (in the interest of S/N ratios) run my synths flat out with high velocity values and control their volume the low tech way (at the mix desk). A random note with a 127 velocity value is not going to stand out so much for me.

You have my sympathy. Even though my problems seem to be less severe than others here (at the moment) my trust in DP is shaken. This makes creative work difficult as part of me is always watching for signs of the problem to swoop down out of the blue and wreck what's left of my concentration. A crash would be much easier to work with/around. More and more DP tends to be the last application in my daily workflow. I only launch it once all the MIDI tracks are done (in Live or Cubase) and I'm ready for mixing and sweetening.

I'm afraid that, for those of us that still use large numbers of external MIDI devices, the writing is on the wall. The future is seen as VI's by virtually every software maker out there. MOTU's euthanizing of Unisyn should probably have been adequate warning that they too are moving away from the hardware synth world. Maybe it's time to take my Mac plus/Studio 3 out of moth balls and find my Performer 3.41 install floppy.

good luck to all fellow MIDI diehards,
Wayne

Tobor · Post by **Tobor** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 9:42 am

markwayne wrote:

You have my sympathy. Even though my problems seem to be less severe than others here (at the moment) my trust in DP is shaken. This makes creative work difficult as part of me is always watching for signs of the problem to swoop down out of the blue and wreck what's left of my concentration.

Wayne, please check your PMs (private messages- top right of this page) and emails. I've been trying to get in touch with you.

Tobor

miditime · Post by **miditime** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 4:18 pm

I talked to 2 different techs at MOTU about this and they assured me I was the only one they had ever hear complain about MIDI notes sticking in DP 4.61.

I talked to a MOTU guy at NAMM, and he said the same thing.

But guess what.

I trashed / emptied the DP preference file, and wala.

No more MIDI stuck notes.

(I did get pretty good at the command 1 keystroke though.)

good luck!

markwayne · Post by **markwayne** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 4:37 pm

I talked to 2 different techs at MOTU about this and they assured me I was the only one they had ever hear complain about MIDI notes sticking in DP 4.61.

I talked to a MOTU guy at NAMM, and he said the same thing.

Well that's interesting news. I've talked to two techs at MOTU about this and had a couple of email exchanges as well about this issue.

I'm willing to bet that several others in this thread have done the same.

Hey Tobor, I'm sorry I don't show any PMs in my inbox. I'll try to get in touch with you.

Wayne

labman · Post by **labman** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 5:43 pm

miditime wrote:
I trashed / emptied the DP preference file, and wala.

No more MIDI stuck notes.

(I did get pretty good at the command 1 keystroke though.)

good luck!

Interesting. One of the many things we tried was trashing prefs. Did nothing to help the stickies here.

Regards,
DLevy
mgr, Legacy Lab

miditime · Post by **miditime** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 5:58 pm

I had also trashed / emptied the Audio Unit Info Cache & let DP rescan the AU's. Did you try that?

Maybe I just got lucky.

(consider: the stuck notes are not only on external instruments, but also the virtual instruments.)

miditime · Post by **miditime** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 6:03 pm

also remove any demo / bootleg au/vst instruments in the plug-in folder.

I'm pretty sure stuck MIDI notes not going to happen in a "virgin" DP install.

then if you really need the instrument, put them back in 1 at a time.

MOTUnation.com

Stuck MIDI notes...arrrrrgggggghhhhhh!

DP 4.61 MIDI stuck notes

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