Is DP's summing wack?

[zandurian]

So, what to make of this? Part of me agrees with danny/zandurian, that there IS an audible difference between ITB/OTB and that, personally, I think I prefer OTB.

I think it's clear that (if you don't clip) then DP is not messing your sound up. That being said, if you need to enhance your recorded sound further, and if your ITB plugs can't get that done for you, then you have to look for other sonic solutions outside. Me personally, if I want more MCI tone I think I'll just run everything through the MCI one more time and then mix ITB.
Remember guys, ANY manipulation of the sound away from it's original state is technically "distortion" (including boosting or cutting frequences or even the room acoustics for that matter). Maybe in SOME situations absolute accuracy is needful, but in a creative, artistic line of work it's generally a very low priority BUT (as stated before) what I love about modern digital technology (and these tests) is the need to know that the sound is being accurately preserved once it's achieved.
Think about it through - The goal of accuracy throughout the recording process (taken to it's illogical extreme) would mean this: recording everything in an anechoic chamber with totally flat mic response (maybe omni's only to eleminate proximity effect?) and absolutely no eq, compression ect. Then, with our totally accurate/quiet digital medium we capture it and ... can you imagine what that would sound like? (Probably kinda' cool at first, just for it's novelty, right?!!) Think of artists (painters) what if they all strove for strict realism in their work? How boring would that be????
I'll tell you what, when I record my own voice I'll take ANY and all help I can get. Most clients NEED help and even people with great voices (unlike mine) need some compression, eq to make them fit into the mix just right.
The only reason I got into this discussion is because I knew why the the ghost mix sounded better to the listener and saw an oppurtunity to share my little philosophy here, maybe help a few people in their quest.

[Fibes]

I suppose I'm a little bored with this topic but I will say that the higher the track count the more likely things are gonna fold up ITB. Hell, a Mackie can sometimes be a better solution but we all have to decide which tools work best for us if properly implemented. The whole summing box fad is really kinda freaky because I'm positive that 80% of the people buying them are looking for a magic bullet when the real problem is between the DAW and the seat.

[chrispick]

Well, again, for what it's worth...

I wasn't seeking an ITB vs. OTB definitive conclusion through this thread. Clearly, analog gear affects sound quality differently than digital gear. Moreover, combining and extracting the best of both worlds, both early on in the recording change and later in the summing stage, reaps positive results for many users.

That's pretty rudimentary, I think. No stunning realizations. No need to rehash analog vs. digital debates.

I just wanted to learn whether or not DP's internal summing math set-up was doing what it's supposed to. Through qo's tests and Katz's testimony, I'm confident enough that it does, at least to my satisfaction.

Thanks for the thread, qo.

[FM]

thanks for taking the time to do these tests.

i have been working OTB for a while now and belong to the hybrid studio gang, when i made the switch i did a bunch of very very very un-scientific tests and finally just went with my ears.

i also think that it has a lot to do with workflow, i sum OTB and mix ITB but i am almost constantly re-routing and listening to my mix OTB. it's a lot more work but to me it's worth it.

again, this thread is not an OTB vs. ITB debate so i will stay away from that as others have done, that's a horse we've beaten enough.

thanks for putting the time and effort in doing this.

cheers!

FM

FM still has no clue as to whom Kaiser Soza is.

[Bartj]

This is probily going to sound retarted. But what is summing?

[qo]

This is probily going to sound retarted. But what is summing?

Summing is the process of combining the separate audio tracks in a mix into a single stereo or mono track (or into multiple "stems" e.g. a drum mix, vox mix, etc). It's what any mixing console (virtual or physical) is built to do.

[epidot68]

I agree with Fibes. Too hot translates into a digital "fog" as q was saying in the intial post. OTB summing is a method just as ITB summing is a method. Seems to me that there is no right or wrong, but just what result you want.

As for the summing issue in general, is anyone using a summing unit like the new Neve or the Tube Tech. These things fascinate me mostly because you SEEM to be getting the console sound for a very low price.

As David said, it's usually coming back to the computer anyway so for under 5K to get a classic board summing sound for little money in a 2U box seems too good to be true. So, would love to hear if anyone has any knowledge of this.