EDM with DP sucks big time!!!

[James Steele]

No need to talk about the OP in the third person. As I said, I'd like to see MIDI objects and some stuff like that, but I mean it sincerely when I say he might be better off using something that suits his workflow better. It would be great if he was a DP user, but I recognize that not everybody will find it best for them. I'm a big fan of it myself as you know, but people are different.

[Shooshie]

I've been using DP since Performer ver 1 (MIDI Only) and never gonna switch to other DAW unless MOTU follows the fate of Opcode.

DP is very deep and mature, but if you work on loop based music like EDM, it sucks big time !!

Here's 2 big reasons why...
1. No object(block) based editing.
2. No absolute snap to grid (why not giving us choices like Sonar does. snap to/ snap by ??)
Again, why not giving us choices, MOTU???

Check out Future Music interviews, no EDM producer uses DP !!

You addressed this in another post to which I replied, so I'll add my reply here, where it's more relevant.

There are ways to get around DP's object oriented region editing shortcomings which work just about as well as any other DAW. The lack of DP in EDM is probably more of a reputation thing than based on actual limits, though I do believe some other DAWs are more purposefully made for that kind of music, whereas DP is more of a free-form music app; it doesn't favor any particular style, but is flexible enough to do just about any style. Object oriented editing is how the Tracks Overview is set up, though selecting a particular object is more difficult in the T.O. window. But you can make it work.

For example, quantize as you go, or just shift selections so that the first event moves to the beat (grid), so that your groups of events (regions) occur on the grid. You can then edit them in the Tracks Overview as if you were editing regions in Logic, Acid, or other DAWs. To select a certain range in the Tracks Overview window, even though the visible region extends too far (or if you need parts of adjacent regions), holding down the COMMAND key will enable you to select right up next to the beats and get precisely what you want, right down to the note or MIDI event. Once selected, move it anywhere, instantly, and it stays on the grid. Need finer resolution? Zoom in.

Of course, you can always do your selection in the MIDI Edit Window, right under the Tracks Overview window in the Consolidated Window, then switch to the Tracks Overview window to move those blocks (selections) around as objects.

I don't want to say that it's as easy to edit regions in DP as in those other DAWs, but if you're accustomed to doing it, it's not much more difficult in the T.O. window than it is in, say, Logic's Arrange Window.

I worked as an arranger for nearly 20 years for a show that performed classic rock and pop, and I got very, very good at moving selections as if they were objects. It spoiled me forever from using those DAWs that were made for that, because they feel like working in a straightjacket and handcuffs, whereas DP does all those things just fine while leaving me free to do anything ELSE I want, instantly. There must be at least a half-dozen ways to quickly get a selection lined up with anything, including the grid. The key to DP is getting quick enough to recognize which one to use without hesitation. Also, another key skill in DP is learning how to select what you want very quickly. I've forgotten more ways to select particular MIDI objects in DP than you'll find in other DAWs. Still, if one of those DAWs is made exactly for the kind of music you're writing, there is no shame in using it for that.

Shooshie

[newmotu]

First of all, I'm sorry to be so blunt about the EDM and DP thing..
Like I said DP is very deep especially when it come to precision and details, but why if you just wanna sketch some basic ideas fast? man.it a real pain.

Yes, there's few things DP can't do things other DAWs do.
region(block) based editing, loop function and absolute snap to grid, elastic audio equivalent, and etc. These can be accomplished in different ways with the expense of extra steps. too bad.

Since I've been a DP user for many years I have my own solutions for DP's shortcomings.
but, I still don't want those extra steps get in the way of my creative process every time.

Again and Again, why not giving us choices MOTU?? is that so hard to add these features?
I don't understand.

What I understand is that for many people (especially EDM people and newcomers) those extra steps might be a deal breaker.

[daniel.sneed]

What I understand is that for many people (especially EDM people and newcomers) those extra steps might be a deal breaker.

IMHO, there's no big time if they are more comfortable with another DAW.
Just keep in mind this board is not owned by Motu. It's run by James Steele, who is a big DP fan, just as many are around here.
This is a place where DP and MOTU gear users discuss and help each other.

[nk_e]

I can understand the frustration. Sometimes it's hard to be all things to all people. I was wondering to myself if I might go to a forum for a DAW that's not especially good for scoring to picture, and post there about it.

I'm trying to find some common ground here and I would like to see things like MIDI objects, so I can drag a 4 bar pattern for example for my Addictive Drums onto a MIDI track and it would stay grouped together as a block (which I could ungroup if I wanted).

Again, it might be possible to make everyone happy without making nobody happy. With a lot of those loop-oriented programs with time-stretching, etc., I have to wonder if that would wreak havoc with keeping track of sync points and other linear sorts of things one might depend on when sync'd to picture?

Yep. That would be cool.

[nk_e]

First of all, I'm sorry to be so blunt about the EDM and DP thing..
Like I said DP is very deep especially when it come to precision and details, but why if you just wanna sketch some basic ideas fast? man.it a real pain.

Yes, there's few things DP can't do things other DAWs do.
region(block) based editing, loop function and absolute snap to grid, elastic audio equivalent, and etc. These can be accomplished in different ways with the expense of extra steps. too bad.

Since I've been a DP user for many years I have my own solutions for DP's shortcomings.
but, I still don't want those extra steps get in the way of my creative process every time.

Again and Again, why not giving us choices MOTU?? is that so hard to add these features?
I don't understand.

What I understand is that for many people (especially EDM people and newcomers) those extra steps might be a deal breaker.

That's the beauty of using several tools....you can use the one that fits the task at hand.

Some may say "I don't have the time to learn several tools!" But in what other areas of life is that true? All of us use multiple hand tools to get different real word types of repair jobs done. Sure, there are multipurpose tools, but multipurpose tools always involve compromise. Maybe the compromise out weighs having to lug a full toolbox around, but the value of that trade-off a person has to decide for themselves.

DP is great at most things; object orientation is not one of its strengths. So if that matters, grab LOGIC or LIVE and have at it. Use DP for what it focuses on when that is a focus of the project.

Besides, it's fun to have another tool or two available...it can spark some creativity just because of its approach to things.

IMHOFWIWYMMV

[mikehalloran]

Am I the only one who doesn't know what EDM is? Does that make me a bad person?

Many of us own more than one DAW. Although I rarely use Logic, I do own a copy and know how to use it. The few times I have done anything with loops, I used Encore or Finale and wrote them out, copy and paste measures. I am much mre comfortable with notation always.

I don't have the equivelant of a big SnapOn roll around but I try to have enough tools to do the job at hand.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

You don't know EDM? Man, you don't know what you're missin'!

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Might also mean:

Easily Done Music

Eeeeek! D Minor!!!!

'eas da man!

Errrr.... Duh.... Musik...

Electronical Dronydance Moo-sick (aka Mad Cow Disease)

Regardless...

DP SUCKS AT IT, BIG TIME !!

And we're thankful for that!

<--- make believe this is a mad cow.

[David Polich]

EDM stands for Electronic Dance Music. BT is an EDM guy. Goldfrapp have
recorded some EDM-style tracks. I know enough about it to say that like
all other genres, elements of EDM have found their way into all styles of
pop music these days. Katy Perry, Lady Gaga, Maroon 5 - all of those artists
incorporate a bit of it.

I completely disagree that you can't do EDM with DP. That's like saying
DP is no good for hip-hop. Is there really a DAW specifically designed for
EDM? No. That's because EDM, like hip-hop, or IDM or house or garage or dubstep, evolved from previous styles. One could say that Kraftwerk could
be considered the fathers of EDM music. When Kraftwerk recorded "The Man Machine", were they thinking "EDM"? No. They were just doing what they felt
like doing with the tools they had.

Reaktor 5 has loads of EDM ensembles. Absynth 5 has plenty of EDM type stuff. Scroll through presets in those synths, you're bound to find plenty of stuff you can build on. Arturia's Spark EDM software drum instrument is
devoted entirely to EDM. Rob Papen's synths all have "EDM" style presets.
Look around - there's boatloads of VI's and plug-ins that work for EDM.

It's a hallmark of inexperienced producers to say, "I can't do this or that
in DAW 'X'". Of course you can. You're setting your own limits, the software
isn't. Think a little more creatively. You have everything you need for your
style of music at hand, if not in the DAW you're working in, then in other
VI's, plug-ins, and sample libraries.

There is no such thing as a "blues guitar". A guitar is a guitar, it doesn't
"know" what style of guitar it is. Neither does a synthesizer or a drum machine. Don't blame any piece of software for "getting in the way of your
creativity". The software isn't what's at fault.

[rnappi]

Don't blame any piece of software for "getting in the way of your creativity". The software isn't what's at fault.

+1


rich

[Kubi]

Lack of object-oriented MIDI editing is definitely a minus for styles like EDM. Heck I'd like to have it, too, and I definitely don't work in modules.

I'm with James, DP may just be the wrong DAW for this guy, at least for the time being. So he's a bit dramatic about it, that's quite alright. I'm a bit dramatic myself about how insanely well DP works for me...

[dosuna11]

I just grabbed 10 tracks of MIDI as a block and pasted it for a crazy video producer. PBD (Paste on demand.) ????

[newmotu]

Man. Motunation after all.. a lot of DP defensive guys..

Like I said DP is very deep and mature I admit that. I know that !
that's why It's been my main DAW for 20 years !!

DP is capable of doing EDM, actually, DP is capable of doing anything that other DAWs do.
then why most EDM people don't use DP and why film guys do ??

Have you ever used other DAWs working on film or video games? You'll miss DP big time !!

DP isn't the best choice when it comes to EDM. On the contrary for film, DP is the best !

ok we can talk about all the exceptions, but most people don't choose DP for EDM.
That's simply a fact that you can hardly swallow. isn't it?

Is it so hard to admit this fact?
DP must be the best easy fast on every field? for you and me maybe....

ok DP don't suck with EDM, isn't effective as other DAWs.
all those professional EDM producers can't be wrong (same holds true for pro film composers)

[David Polich]

Man. Motunation after all.. a lot of DP defensive guys..

Like I said DP is very deep and mature I admit that. I know that !
that's why It's been my main DAW for 20 years !!

DP is capable of doing EDM, actually, DP is capable of doing anything that other DAWs do.
then why most EDM people don't use DP and why film guys do ??

Have you ever used other DAWs working on film or video games? You'll miss DP big time !!

DP isn't the best choice when it comes to EDM. On the contrary for film, DP is the best !

ok we can talk about all the exceptions, but most people don't choose DP for EDM.
That's simply a fact that you can hardly swallow. isn't it?

Is it so hard to admit this fact?
DP must be the best easy fast on every field? for you and me maybe....

ok DP don't suck with EDM, isn't effective as other DAWs.
all those professional EDM producers can't be wrong (same holds true for pro film composers)

Dude, c'mon. First you backpedal a bit and apologize for being a bit harsh,
then turn around and throw out an insult again. Seriously? No one has said
DP is "the best" for anything. Where do you get that?

Maybe this discussion should be moved to the "Off Topic" section because
it's turning into an opinion exchange, having nothing to do with whether
there is some bug with DP.

DP doesn't "suck" for EDM. Maybe you should have said that you are doing
EDM, and it doesn't particularly suit you for that. But you can't categorically say no one uses it for EDM. I did - I did an entire EDM album
with it in 2011. Go to i-Tunes and search for "Samantha Newark" and then
select her "Something Good" album. Select the track "Hands On Me". All done
in DP.