VI management in DP7

[Luke]

I would think that DP 8 will solve most of these problems with VI's maxing out. I have no inside track on this, it's just a hunch. Of course, there will always be a limit to how many we can use with the amount of memory in our machines and the allocation therein.

[FutureLegends]

I would think that DP 8 will solve most of these problems with VI's maxing out. I have no inside track on this, it's just a hunch. Of course, there will always be a limit to how many we can use with the amount of memory in our machines and the allocation therein.

I'm not so sure... I have 9gb of ram and with my typical projects I have 4gb free... and PLAY is using it's memory server... Doesn't seem to be memory related. Unless it's the shuffling from the memory server into DP that's acting up, in which case 64bit DP would help. In any case it shouldn't make things worse.
It's very annoying cause looking at the Activity Monitor I'm rarely pushing my computer above 25-30% but in DP because of spikes its between 30-70% and if I lower the buffer below 256 it's more like 45-85% but with spikes that cause cracks etc... And 256 is too much latency for rythmic material or staccato stufff... This is making the songwriting experience very unpleasant and I have to fight more against the technology that concentrating on writing good material. Been considering getting an SSD disk and even more ram but ram for the Mac Pro 1,1s is rediculously expensive and SSD drivers are too... and I doubt spending more money on such an old machine is very wise. But can't afford a new one either...

[malditoyanki]

Why would you use Kontakt inside of DP? Put everything inside of one giant VEpro template and TURN OFF Kontakt memory manager. Also, set cores to maximum for VEpro.

Yes, this was the idea, but if I'm getting distortion with only Omnishpere so I'm going no further until I resolve this.. And Vienna states using both managers should work side by side if I adjust core usage. When I get a break, I guess I'll have to experiment more- nothing is easy with these setups I am hoping VEP will be redundant after DP8, unless I want to run VIs on 2 Macs. Time will tell.

Well basically what I'm saying is your problem is likely due to the way you're setting things up and not due to VEpro or RAM per se. Running Kontakt memory manager inside DP at 32 bit while simultaneously running VEpro server at 64 is not a wise approach.

[rthorderson]

if using a single Mac (no slaves), is there a noticeable advantage to using VEPro with DP?

That is exactly what I am doing...DEFINITIVELY YES.

would you anticipate that advantage to continue with DP 8?

I think that will depend on how good DP8 ends up performing. But there is something telling me that it certainly won't hurt to have the option of lightening up the load on DP8 in super complex projects.

Nevertheless, I was in trouble now, and could not wait for DP8 to ship and stabilize. So, I tried the demo from their site and was so blown away I bought it that night. Turns out that Sweetwater has it on sale right now too...

This product is so good though, I may keep using it in DP8...it even comes with a Orch Library (like I need another one of those???)...

[williemyers]

Randy, man thanks so much...that was *exactly* the kind of response I was hoping to read! I'm going to fire my demo up tomorrow

Turns out that Sweetwater has it on sale right now too...

BTW, I couldn't find a "sale" from SW on it? They showing $265, which is the same as the "other guys"(B&H). Did you need to enter a coupon code or something to get a lower price?
and again, many thanks for the reply!

[nk_e]

if using a single Mac (no slaves), is there a noticeable advantage to using VEPro with DP?

That is exactly what I am doing...DEFINITIVELY YES.

would you anticipate that advantage to continue with DP 8?

I think that will depend on how good DP8 ends up performing. But there is something telling me that it certainly won't hurt to have the option of lightening up the load on DP8 in super complex projects.

Nevertheless, I was in trouble now, and could not wait for DP8 to ship and stabilize. So, I tried the demo from their site and was so blown away I bought it that night. Turns out that Sweetwater has it on sale right now too...

This product is so good though, I may keep using it in DP8...it even comes with a Orch Library (like I need another one of those???)...

+1

[rthorderson]

BTW, I couldn't find a "sale" from SW on it? They showing $265, which is the same as the "other guys"(B&H).

Sorry, you are correct...they all have it marked down the same (which is not unusual)...but that is way less than buying it directly from VSL (over $300 after EUR conversion), which is what I almost did. Doh!

[nk_e]

BTW, did you give MIR a try? If so, what do you think?

[rthorderson]

BTW, did you give MIR a try? If so, what do you think?

I have not...although I looked over the pitch on their site. It looks very intriguing...a completely different mindset to mixing. Not enough time in my life to go much further than that unfortunately

[frankf]

...and I get distortion on a simple Omnisphere track when bussing it back to DP.

Frankf,

When you say you buss it back to DP, it implies to me that you are running VEP5 is the standalone mode. I am new to this, but that is not how I am doing it...and my results are crystal clear (with only 8GB ram).

1) Launch the VEP5 Server Application. There are two versions...32 and 64 bit. I have some VIs that are still not 64 bit, so I am running the 32 bit right now, but am going to experiment with running both versions next.

2) Open DP, and add the VEP5 VI. This will prompt you to select a VEP5 Server Application.

3) Once VEP5 is connected, you simply add VIs to the VEP5 VI. The audio from all the add VIs shows up in the VEP5 VI...so there is no need to "...buss back to DP" per se.

Man, I hope that clears up your distortion, because I feel like I have been REBORN since adding VEP5 to the equation...

Cheers!

Thanks for the input, I am running VEP as an instance in DP via VEP5 server in 64 bit mode. When I say bus, I was referring to the Core Audio busses presented to DP when VEP5 is inserted on an instrument track. Sorry for the confusion. I have more experimenting to do with VEP for sure.
Frank

[nk_e]

BTW, did you give MIR a try? If so, what do you think?

I have not...although I looked over the pitch on their site. It looks very intriguing...a completely different mindset to mixing. Not enough time in my life to go much further than that unfortunately

Give it a go when you have the chance. It's impressive as hell.

[toodamnhip]

I am new to VE Pro and would also give it a big thumbs up. Has any of us seen a thread with so many positives for a product?
This is as close to a no brainer as things get I think.
I think the orchestral library it comes with, though I haven;t heard it yet..I am running the demo, makes the pain of a possible DP revivification less painful.

And, DP has never been an efficient program. Their attempts at memory saving VI and plug in management have been full of problems.

i think I can safely assume DP will always be a bit of a weakling when it comes to stability, crashing and VI management sorry to say. I have seen nothing in many many years and incarnations to persuade me otherwise.

Thus, take all the load of DP as you can..that;s my motto.
I think DP is safest when it is running below 40% at most, 20% even better.

[frankf]

I am new to VE Pro and would also give it a big thumbs up. Has any of us seen a thread with so many positives for a product?
This is as close to a no brainer as things get I think.
I think the orchestral library it comes with, though I haven;t heard it yet..I am running the demo, makes the pain of a possible DP revivification less painful.

And, DP has never been an efficient program. Their attempts at memory saving VI and plug in management have been full of problems.

i think I can safely assume DP will always be a bit of a weakling when it comes to stability, crashing and VI management sorry to say. I have seen nothing in many many years and incarnations to persuade me otherwise.

Thus, take all the load of DP as you can..that;s my motto.
I think DP is safest when it is running below 40% at most, 20% even better.

What system do you have? How are you distributing your VIs? In my experience on my system, a MacPro 3,1 with 24 gb RAM, your claims do not hold up. Below 40%? Not here. DP can get overloaded running with 4gb max ram. VEP or Bidule helps with that until 8 is released.

That said, go for VEP, it does work and saves us on DP7.24 and please list your system when you make claims like you have so they can be put in context.
Frank

[rthorderson]

What system do you have? How are you distributing your VIs? In my experience on my system, a MacPro 3,1 with 24 gb RAM, your claims do not hold up.

Hi Frank,

As an example, I just finished work on a project that had one VEP5 instance with a) Kontakt4 fully loaded with 14 instruments (Mojo Horns, JABB Horns, Kontakt Horns, Scarbee Bass, etc), b) Superior Drummer, and c) Modarrt Piano. The Mojo Horns are especially piggish. Most of the instruments were mapped to outputs that fed Aux tracks in the DP Mixer (horns were sub-mixed first in VEP5's mixer) to facilitate mixing. I ran no instruments in DP directly other than VEP5 (my Nomad / Lexicon effects were running in DP directly).

I also had maybe 5 audio tracks of guitars (each in stereo). The Processor meter in DP was floating around 30 to 40% with the normal spikes (but I never really noticed many if any red spikes). The OSX processor meter was at about 40 to 50% for the 8 cores.

System Specs in Sig below...

This project was impossible to run with DP alone previously...the DP meter was slammed while the OSX meters were barely moving. Bidule helped some, but still seemed to demand a lot from DP itself and the meters were still slammed, and the project choking.

Another important note...I am running the audio latency at 128...I could fix some of the DP issue before by running at 1024, but while sequencing, that was just to much delay. Instruments are set to "Pre-Gen Mode when Possible" in the preferences.

Maybe my project is just a fraction of what you are trying to do?

[frankf]

Hi Frank,

As an example, I just finished work on a project that had one VEP5 instance with a) Kontakt4 fully loaded with 14 instruments (Mojo Horns, JABB Horns, Kontakt Horns, Scarbee Bass, etc), b) Superior Drummer, and c) Modarrt Piano. The Mojo Horns are especially piggish. Most of the instruments were mapped to outputs that fed Aux tracks in the DP Mixer (horns were sub-mixed first in VEP5's mixer) to facilitate mixing. I ran no instruments in DP directly other than VEP5 (my Nomad / Lexicon effects were running in DP directly).

I also had maybe 5 audio tracks of guitars (each in stereo). The Processor meter in DP was floating around 30 to 40% with the normal spikes (but I never really noticed many if any red spikes). The OSX processor meter was at about 40 to 50% for the 8 cores.

System Specs in Sig below...

This project was impossible to run with DP alone previously...the DP meter was slammed while the OSX meters were barely moving. Bidule helped some, but still seemed to demand a lot from DP itself and the meters were still slammed, and the project choking.

Another important note...I am running the audio latency at 128...I could fix some of the DP issue before by running at 1024, but while sequencing, that was just to much delay. Instruments are set to "Pre-Gen Mode when Possible" in the preferences.

Maybe my project is just a fraction of what you are trying to do?

Thanks for the response. I want to apologize for asking for system info. I usually use Tapatalk and have yet to be able to see signatures there. So I'm using a browser now and there they are.

Ok, now I'm not sure who is responding to whom I was responding to the post about DP being inefficient. But to continue, I was doing fine in DP7.24 until I started using pushing my system too hard. I offloaded Omnisphere to VEP5 on the same Mac and have been running smoothly now (I've got 24gb RAM)
My basic orchestral template is,
inside of DP:
4 instances of Kontakt 4, 1 each for winds, brass, strings, percussion
1instance of Kontakt 5 with LASS
Ivory
Stylus RMX

In VEP5:
Omnisphere

Kontakt 4/5 have their own memory manager which works well for me
I run at buffer=256 when writing, sometimes, but rarely, 128, switching to 1024 when mixing.
All VIs are in a v-rack
Pre Gen is always off for all VIs

I have Play and I like some of the instruments in EW platinum, but I seems to push DP too much. I use it with only a few instruments as needed, and must give it a try in VEP. I still consider myself a newbee with VEP5 and move VIs there on an as needed basis

Frank