Best virtual drum software for DP

ironchef_marc · Post by **ironchef_marc** » Thu Apr 07, 2011 7:49 pm

I have Abbey Road Drums which sound great and I love the interface but no routing possible which is a shame.

So I'm shopping for a virtual drum software there seems to be quite a few out there (BDFD2, EZ Drummer, Toontrack, Virtual Drummer etc.) but I'd be curious to hear what other DP users are using and how it works for them. Basically looking for one that integrates well with DP, allows routing, easy to use, variety of kits etc.

cheers,

-icm

jlaudon · Post by **jlaudon** » Thu Apr 07, 2011 7:55 pm

I'm loving Superior Drummer (Toontrack) the most. Used to use BFD and Battery, but SD is very easy to use and great sound.

Dan Walsh · Post by **Dan Walsh** » Thu Apr 07, 2011 7:59 pm

+1 one on Superior. I also have EZ Drummer and Drumtracker and EZ Player Pro all from Toontrack. They all work real well with DP.

I also use some of the Steven Slate stuff (the packs that were for sale as an AudioMidi No Brainer deal and they sound great, but you gotta use em' with Kontakt in my case. It works well, but siperior is my go to these days.

mhschmieder · Post by **mhschmieder** » Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:36 pm

Well, BFD doesn't seem to get any love for the past few years, anywhere on the net, so I'd better remind people it exists.

I still find it the most realistic for phrasing, continuity, dynamics.

The downside is that there are by now some better recorded kits for other formats -- especially Kontakt.

I am especially fond of the ones from Sonic Reality, but they are somewhat tricky to use compared to BFD, Superior, etc., as each kit piece takes up a lot of vertical screen real estate and also you have to individually select different drop-lists to see how the articulations are key-mapped. But I highly recommend the Ken Scott Epik Drums (including the cheap version), and some of the Drum Masters series.

Even so, BFD is more deeply sampled than anything else out there. It's just that their choice of kit pieces is not always my preferred, or the mics that they used either. But it's case by case really, and most of John Emrich's work at the Maryland studio is stellar quality, even if the recording technique sometimes limits the versatility (e.g. "Jazz 'n' Funk" isn't the easiest to mix due to a bizarrely low recording level that can't even be explained by dynamic range).

BFD is essential REGARDLESS of what else you have though, and you can get the ECO edition to host sound kits. The reason BFD is essential is that it STILL has the most deeply sampled latin percussion available. Yet they disappointingly skipped most of the Brasilian batterie, and then decided to brag about throwing in the "kitchen sink" (self-congratulatorily, while lowering confidence that they actually understand World Music).

Well, all quibbles aside, I use BFD Percussion every day that I record. I could not live without it. The ability to tune the congas, timbales, etc., and get the right snap vs. just get a higher pitch, is remarkable.

Also, cymbals are BFD's forte. And now you have so many choices, with the Zildjian Gen16 project and the Bosphorous cymbals (Stanton Moore signature series).

I always felt snares were where BFD let me down, and to a lesser degree kick, but now there are so many small add-on libraries that you can buy on the cheap, and they have picked really good kits to record for these newer additions. So the trend is ever-more-positive, even though BFD seems to have fallen off the radar of the average computer recordist.

I love the flexibility of mixing different mics (direct, room, ambient, etc.) on a piece by piece basis, as well as individual panning and leveling. There are built-in effects from Overloud (Breverb etc.) but I turn them all off as I don't pre-mix my drums in BFD (though this is possible). You can even control the amount of mix bleed of kick and snare on other kit pieces!

Every now and then, I listen to audio demos of other drum software, but still am not convinced anyone has reached the level of realism that fxpansion has with BFD. Yet they have heavy competition -- especially when considering genre-specific add-on packs from Toontrack (Nashville, Metal, etc.). There are still new vendors signing on to produce BFD formatted libraries though.

Armageddon · Post by **Armageddon** » Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:37 pm

I stick by EZDrummer. The kits are universally fantastic-sounding, require little-to-no tinkering to sound great in a mix and have tons of articulation, especially for the money involved. It also takes up a lot less hard drive space and CPU than Superior Drummer or BFD. My only beef is that no one EZX kit (that I currently own) has everything -- I have to use Drumkit From Hell in order to have a full complement of cymbals and china crash, I have to use Latin Percussion to get tambourines, congos and windchimes, and I have to load up another kit in another instance of EZDrummer if I want to use a different set of drums. It would be nice if EZDrummer had the ability to cherry-pick from all the drum sounds in your collection, but again, that might be asking too much for the money involved. I'd at least like to see a GM-style kit that incorporates everything.

Despite that minor hiccup, it's my drum VI and "drum machine" of choice. I own the stock Pop/Rock kit, Vintage Rock Sticks & Brushes, Drumkit From Hell, Latin Percussion, Twisted and the amazing Electronic kit. I recently picked up the Classic kit, which has both regular mic and a "four mic" configuration that emulates the old-school sound of a kit mic'd only with a kick mic, snare mic and two overheads. It's worked out so well that I've packed away my hardware drum machines I used to have around to keep time while I compose tracks.

fullertime · Post by **fullertime** » Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:14 pm

BFD 2 is amazing! I use it on almost everything. The grooves are great and The programmability is
Sweet in DP. I am able to program tracks that pro drummers can't even tell they are not live.

I will say though that it is 300% better when you add on the Yamaha Maple Custom kit and the Oak kit. They are by far the best sounding kicks.

Steve Slate has some great sounding samples, but it's not nearly as easy to program as BFD

Good luck!

mhschmieder · Post by **mhschmieder** » Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:39 pm

Yes, I should have been specific about which BFD 2 add-on packs address weaknesses in the basic set!

Indeed, the Yamaha maple drum set provides my strongest kick, and the one I consider the most versatile.

I haven't tried the oak expansion yet, so it's good to hear a testimonial -- especially regarding the kick.

As for EZ, I've considered it in the past due to the Nashville and Metal expansions, but it seems you don't get as much as with Superior, and apparently none of the expansions are compatible with Superior or at least don't take advantage of its features? It's a bit confusing.

twistedtom · Post by **twistedtom** » Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:41 pm

I have both Toontrack's SD and EZdrummer, I use SD all the time now as it has so much control over how you want it to sound and the sounds are real good. I run my EZD expansions in SD as well; their MIDI packs and samples show up in SD. The SD sample files are 10 times larger than they are in EZ as they add a good deal of variation and have larger samples. In the mixer you can use a preset to adjust the way your drums are mixed; with effects also; you can really change the sound of your drums in a big way here. You can adjust each drum in the mixer. You can control the sound of each drum in a window in the main page by adjusting the drum's characteristics. I have a number of the MIDI expansion packs as well.

mhschmieder · Post by **mhschmieder** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 12:17 am

OK, so just to be clear, since they're on sale right now:

The EZ Drummer expansions take on new depth and/or features when used in Superior vs. EZ Drummer? That was my hope, but I had difficulty clarifying this from product literature.

Armageddon · Post by **Armageddon** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 12:56 am

twistedtom wrote:I have both Toontrack's SD and EZdrummer, I use SD all the time now as it has so much control over how you want it to sound and the sounds are real good. I run my EZD expansions in SD as well; their MIDI packs and samples show up in SD. The SD sample files are 10 times larger than they are in EZ as they add a good deal of variation and have larger samples. In the mixer you can use a preset to adjust the way your drums are mixed; with effects also; you can really change the sound of your drums in a big way here. You can adjust each drum in the mixer. You can control the sound of each drum in a window in the main page by adjusting the drum's characteristics. I have a number of the MIDI expansion packs as well.

You get a fairly nice mixer in EZDrummer, as well, and even a routing template for DP. These aren't really overriding factors for me, since I still record my drums like "real" drums onto multiple audio tracks and mix them inside of DP, rather than in real time from the EZDrummer interface. However, with the exception of effects (and even this can be achieved with the routing template Toontrack includes with the software), you can achieve a decent mix if you're recording EZDrummer as one stereo VI in the context of a real-time VI mix.

However, you absolutely do get more control and better quality by running the same sounds through Superior Drummer. I've never needed the extra features, so I've been plenty happy with EZDrummer, but they're definitely things to take into consideration.

jloeb · Post by **jloeb** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 2:32 am

mhschmieder wrote:OK, so just to be clear, since they're on sale right now:

The EZ Drummer expansions take on new depth and/or features when used in Superior vs. EZ Drummer? That was my hope, but I had difficulty clarifying this from product literature.

Yes, in that they behave just like any other set when used in Superior. The difference between the EZX and SDX expansions is simply number of pieces of kit as far as I can tell. Since the EZXs are genre-focused they don't come with as many different sampled items, and sometimes fewer varieties of specialty far-miking, but that's it. The sampling depth per piece, bleed and close/overhead/room miking are very similar if not identical to those in SDX libraries, and they can be mixed/matched with no problem.

ironchef_marc · Post by **ironchef_marc** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 6:31 am

Thank you all! I'll take a look at BFD2 and Superior Drums.
cheers!

twistedtom · Post by **twistedtom** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 3:38 pm

One of the advantages to SD is that there are a number of slightly different samples for the same hit. They take a sample from different parts of the drum head and have more velocities recorded. This give the drums a more natural sound and less like a drum machine as it selects a slightly different hit for each drum hit.

bolla · Post by **bolla** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 4:38 pm

+1 for BFD2.

I find that bringing each instrument and the rooms into DP as separate inputs gives me more flexibility to process the sounds and the end result is much better than mixing within BFD. Most of the BFD sounds are not intensively processed. To me they sound pretty much like the clean mic feeds. This may or may not be what you are after.

I also use the steven slate "no brainer" pack. These are already processed and give you instant gratification though less tweakability.

mhschmieder · Post by **mhschmieder** » Sat Apr 09, 2011 12:32 am

Relistening to the demos at ToonTracks' website, I can tell that Superior 2.0 has really raised the bar and has closed the gap with BFD for realism, but it also represents a different production standard and would not be redundant with BFD.

In fact, I prefer the sound of Superior 2.0 to Steven Slate Drums, which are too "produced" for my tastes (though I love his effects plug-ins that he is doing with Fabrice Gabriel of Eiosis). The Superior drums do seem a bit more specifically oriented towards commercial music than BFD, but without sacrificing tweakability.

Superior 2.0 and BFD2 seem fairly similar in terms of features and workflow. Not sure how BFD ECO compares to EZDrummer. But I doubt either of these programs would be hard to learn, coming from the other. The first versions were more different than the current versions.

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