POD X3 Pro - Line 6 Finally Gives Us What We Want?

[James Steele]

Purists, don't get me wrong - to a guitarist's ear, nothing can ever match the sound of a real cranked tube amp through a real speaker cab with a real mic. BUT, the Line 6 stuff gets me 90-95% of the way there, and in my situation, I cannot crank my amp loud enough to get the extra 5-10% improvement. Practicality has to intervene at some point.

I hear you. To get the tone I want out of my Marshall I have to crank it a bit. It's not that it lacks gain/distortion... it's hot rodded. But for that gain to actually "clean up" and for the amp to become punchy rather than fuzzy and become an expressive instrument, it has to be loud.

Also, being in the same room with amp makes a big difference and that doesn't get captured when I record it... not completely. In fact, I find upon listening back to a guitar track, turning it up playback makes it sound better because it's the "moving the air" effect that a guitarist is used to that is missing when listening to a recording.

Additionally however, the POD XT that I own responds differently to touch. Not worse... necessarily... but it just not as "hi-def" as my amp. My amp will spank me if I don't hit a note just right... the POD let's it go. But I have a better range of dyamics and the timbre changes fundamentally over the whole range of soft to loud playing. I haven't been able to dial that in with the POD so much.

I'm also assuming that when I play the stuff I'm recording live, I'll be using my amp and I'd rather develop my technique around amp playing than POD playing. I find in fact that practicing on the POD is useful, but not completely as I have to play differently with my amp, so subtleties of where you can reliably pull out artificial harmonics or whatever you want to call it when you choke up on the pick are different. It's not that I can't get them from the amp, but I have to play it just a bit differently to elicit what I want from the amp. The POD is easier, hence it makes me a little "lazy" when working with my amp and I have to adjust my playing when switching between the two.

[Resonant Alien]

+1 James. Agree with everything you said. When I have recorded in commercial studios before with a "real" producer/engineer, I was in the room with my amp while the producer was in the other room with the board and tape machine. I definitely play differently when I am in the room standing next to an amp. It adds an emotional element that can't be captured when you are only listening to the playback of your mic'd rig over the monitors. And that's kind of what its like recording with a POD - it's like you are in the control room whilst your amp is in another room far far away - so you lose that raw energy feel.

All things being equal (i.e. if I had a completely soundproof room and could crank my amp to the proper level), I wouldn't even consider recording with the POD, but given that I can't, the POD just makes it so damn easy to get really good and usable tones......

....still at times I feel "dirty"...like I am doing something wrong....like the Gods of Rock Guitar are going to descend at any moment, break my fingers, and take my guitars away forever for not keeping in "real"...

[monkey man]

Ha! I agree with both you guys. All so true.

A question though: Doesn't all this mean that a POD amped through a clean system (PA-style or active monitor) could allow inroads to be made here? Feedback should work properly (theoretically) and room excitement could be achieved too, for instance. Just a thought...

[monkey man]

Not at all KOL. I appreciate your input man.
Say, doesn't the X3 series allow the sort of chaining and swapping that you mention? I get the impression it's got something up its sleeve that the xt didn't in this area.

Not to my knowledge, Nick. The X3 series is like having two XT's, that you can pan.
The effects order stays the same, (distortion/modulation/delay/reverb ) on both signal paths. Although,I gotta admit, that dual amp feature, would open up some nice tonal options.

Ahh... I see, KOL. Bit of a bummer - the new GUI makes it look like this sort of thing's a no-brainer on the X3 units. So few simultaneous stomp boxes and the limited ordering of FX are disappointments for me too, but not deal breakers.

[James Steele]

I do almost all my tracking in my control room, but in order to get into it, I do crank it a bit. Definitely all rhythm guitar parts are done in the control room and most solos. Only time I go out into the studio is when I've got an idea and I really want to get the controlled feedback effect and I just have to be out there with the guitar in closer proximity to the speaker cabs. (I have heard though that if you turn up your studio monitors and bring the guitar near them you can get this feedback too, but haven't tried it).

It's definitely more comfortable in my control room, so for example, if I have a solo where the solo is pretty much normal but at the very end I want the last note to trail off into to that nice singing feedback, I'll record the whole solo first in the control room, then go out and punch in just before that last note while I'm standing out in the studio with the pickup 2 feet from the speaker cab. Shhhhh... don't tell!!

[James Steele]

Hey by the way... Line 6 has been doing a sale and they're offering that plug-in of theirs for cheap. I own a POD XT... any good reason to get the plug-in that works with XT? I cant remember what it's called now.

[monkey man]

Could be the GearBox plug, James. I think it uses your xt as a dongle, but this means that the xt must be patched in (USB) and turned on, something that's put me off exploring this option.

E'Loo and one or two others have enjoyed success with the plug, but I'm a cautious old bastard, so I'm sitting back on plugs in the hope DP will offer something usable one day, if only to save on reamping time.

...(I have heard though that if you turn up your studio monitors and bring the guitar near them you can get this feedback too, but haven't tried it)...

I'm ashamed to say that I have, Jimbo, and... it works!

[Resonant Alien]

Ha! I agree with both you guys. All so true.

A question though: Doesn't all this mean that a POD amped through a clean system (PA-style or active monitor) could allow inroads to be made here? Feedback should work properly (theoretically) and room excitement could be achieved too, for instance. Just a thought...

Actually, that's exactly what I'm doing now when I do want to crank through a real cab. I was using a tube preamp/tube power amp rack setup before - I sold my tube preamp, but held onto my tube power amp (a VHT 2/50/2). Running the POD through the VHT and into a guitar cab sounds really really good, and you get back that raw energy from the speaker/cab combo. Best of both worlds really.

[monkey man]

So it does work?... Yay!

You lucky bugger, RA.

[James Steele]

Ha! I agree with both you guys. All so true.

A question though: Doesn't all this mean that a POD amped through a clean system (PA-style or active monitor) could allow inroads to be made here? Feedback should work properly (theoretically) and room excitement could be achieved too, for instance. Just a thought...

Actually, that's exactly what I'm doing now when I do want to crank through a real cab. I was using a tube preamp/tube power amp rack setup before - I sold my tube preamp, but held onto my tube power amp (a VHT 2/50/2). Running the POD through the VHT and into a guitar cab sounds really really good, and you get back that raw energy from the speaker/cab combo. Best of both worlds really.

Yeah... in theory I could do this easily. In my main rig, I'm using a GCX switcher and the pre-amp and amp sections of my Marshall head are decoupled via an effects loop mod. Using the switcher I can patch signal processors in and out of the effects loop so that they are in true bypass. The one think I keep engaged at all times actually is a Rocktron Intellipitch that has a HUSH noise reduction. It's a digital process that requires an A>D and then D>A, however it's 24-bit and I don't detect any problem with the tone.

Any way, because the pre-amp and amp are decoupled, via MIDI I can choose to use the built-in Marshall pre-amp or bypass it and use a rack mount or or other external preamp instead. Currently I have an old Rocktron Pro G.A.P. as an alternate pre-amp just for clean stuff. It would be no problem to patch in the POD for things like this. I'm assuming you'd just turn off the cabinet simulation.

[Resonant Alien]

Yeah... in theory I could do this easily. In my main rig, I'm using a GCX switcher and the pre-amp and amp sections of my Marshall head are decoupled via an effects loop mod. Using the switcher I can patch signal processors in and out of the effects loop so that they are in true bypass. The one think I keep engaged at all times actually is a Rocktron Intellipitch that has a HUSH noise reduction. It's a digital process that requires an A>D and then D>A, however it's 24-bit and I don't detect any problem with the tone.

Any way, because the pre-amp and amp are decoupled, via MIDI I can choose to use the built-in Marshall pre-amp or bypass it and use a rack mount or or other external preamp instead. Currently I have an old Rocktron Pro G.A.P. as an alternate pre-amp just for clean stuff. It would be no problem to patch in the POD for things like this. I'm assuming you'd just turn off the cabinet simulation.

Ah, yes, but Grasshopper, you would no longer be in harmony with the Marshall Gods if you were to patch in said digital modeling amp to a bona fide Marshall head. Methinks your tubes may blow in rebellion

He he. Good to have options, innit?

[monkey man]

Ha! Too funny RA.

I'm assuming you'd just turn off the cabinet simulation.

Yep, I've not done this as I've only used it directly, but you'd think so James.

[Resonant Alien]

Ha! Too funny RA.

I'm assuming you'd just turn off the cabinet simulation.

Yep, I've not done this as I've only used it directly, but you'd think so James.

You can either turn it off or leave it on - when you switch the POD from "direct output" to "guitar amp output", it actually defaults to leaving the cab simulation on, but it says it "revoices" the simulation to sound better coming through a cabinet....or you can just turn it off completely. There are some patches that sound better with it turned off, while other patches sound better with it left on.

I also experiment with the various output settings, since some sound better even though they are not the "correct" setting - i.e. I actually prefer using the "Combo Power Amp" setting instead of the "Stack Power Amp" setting when I am going out to my VHT, even though the "correct" setting would be "Stack Power Amp".

RA

[markwayne]

I also experiment with the various output settings, since some sound better even though they are not the "correct" setting - i.e. I actually prefer using the "Combo Power Amp" setting instead of the "Stack Power Amp" setting when I am going out to my VHT, even though the "correct" setting would be "Stack Power Amp".
RA

I hear you on that issue. Line6 (and Roland and Sansamp, etc.) seem to think that the only thing that four 12" speakers in a single cab does is cause a phase issue that adds that peaky, mid-range bite. I have an old GP100 that I love but their "stack" model should be labeled "whack" model. They all seem to exaggerate that (in my experience) subtle off-axis phase effect to the point where everything starts to sound the same. I prefer the speaker emulation of my old Red Boxes to that.

After trying to make my POD play nice with tube power amps for quite a while in a live setting, I recently started just running it into a Crown power amp and a little Yamaha floor monitor. It's much easier to dial in a consistent tone now.

I also recently started recording my POD via USB and using it as my input device for guitar tracks. It seems silly with Mytek converters sitting in the same room. But I think the POD actually sounds better when you bypass its DA.

Sometimes it's nice to record a track with cab emulation on and then record another pass with it off and mix to taste. The two don't stomp all over each other that way.

Oh yeah, and to get back to Mr. Monkey's OP: I kind of feel like Line6 has largely been involved in a game of repackaging Amp Farm technology for the last ten years or so. I mean most of their changes at this point seem to be stuffing more of the same into a package that's cheaper to build.

just my opinion,
Wayne

[Resonant Alien]

Oh yeah, and to get back to Mr. Monkey's OP: I kind of feel like Line6 has largely been involved in a game of repackaging Amp Farm technology for the last ten years or so. I mean most of their changes at this point seem to be stuffing more of the same into a package that's cheaper to build.

just my opinion,
Wayne

Maybe to a degree, but I dunno - they have added a ton of new amp models and FX over the years, and there was definitely a noticeable improvement in sonic quality going from the 2.0 generation to the xt models. I will be curious to see if the new converters and better processors have a noticeable effect in the X3 series. I really like the Dual Sound concept. I was pretty much already doing that with my xt Pro, but it required taking two passes with the track. Will be nice to be able to get mixed models in one tracking pass - that's really the big advantage of the X3, IMO. If it wasn't for that feature, I would prolly just stick with the xt. I guess they killed the "Bass POD" line with the X3 series as well, since the X3 models contain both guitar and bass - that's a nice bonus for people that need both.