missing and stuck notes using MSI in standalone mode

lehrman · Post by **lehrman** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 1:59 pm

I am having a terrible time with missed and stuck notes when using Symphonic Instrument in standalone mode. It works fine within DP. Anyone else having this problem?

Version 1.1.3
Intel iMac, System 10.4.8

CME UF8 keyboard (also with UF6), connected via USB.

Audio interface: M-Audio MBox2 Pro (but the same problems are there using Mac internal audio).

Thanks,
Paul

Phrenswa · Post by **Phrenswa** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 9:44 am

Sometimes the missing notes are out of the range for the instrument.

Phrenswa

lehrman · Post by **lehrman** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 10:22 am

Thanks for the response, but that's not the problem. I'm using a piano patch and the notes are right in the middle of the range. Also, the problem is inconsistent: certain notes will sound the first time, but not the next time I play them.

carrythebanner · Post by **carrythebanner** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 6:31 am

Is your buffer size the same in DP as in the standalone MSI? Also, make sure the polyphony is high enough for the passages you're playing, keeping in mind that long release tails will raise the number of voices needed.

lehrman · Post by **lehrman** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 7:35 am

Thanks. Yes, I have tried all different buffer sizes, and matched it to DP (even though DP isn't running) but to no avail. I have also raised the polyphony up to 64 to play a simple piano tune (with chords) and that hasn't helped either. Again, I have no trouble playing MSI within DP--it's only in the standalone mode I have these problems.

carrythebanner · Post by **carrythebanner** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 10:12 am

I wonder if DP and the MSI standalone are handling the MIDI from the USB keyboard differently. Try this:

- In DP, add an MSI instrument track & a MIDI track assigned to it
- Record some MIDI and verify that it records & plays back OK through MSI
- Now launch standalone MSI. In its prefs, set one of the inputs as an Interapplication MIDI port. Load the same piano sound in standalone MSI.
- Change the output of the MIDI track in DP from the MSI instrument track to the Interapplication MIDI port (turn record-enable off to prevent a MIDI feedback loop).
- When you play back now, it should play through the standalone MSI app.

If you get any difference in how it plays back, you might want to e-mail MOTU the DP project file and describe what you did.

lehrman · Post by **lehrman** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 2:36 pm

Very interesting experiment, thank you. But no, there is no difference between playing the track using MSI inside DP and playing the track using standalone MSI through IAC. But when I switch the input in standalone MSI to my keyboard, notes get lost immediately.

My keyboard is sending MIDI clock and Active Sensing, and I don't know if there's a way to turn either of them off. I wonder if that's screwing MSI up somehow. It works just fine with Reason in standalone mode, though.

carrythebanner wrote:I wonder if DP and the MSI standalone are handling the MIDI from the USB keyboard differently. Try this:

- In DP, add an MSI instrument track & a MIDI track assigned to it
- Record some MIDI and verify that it records & plays back OK through MSI
- Now launch standalone MSI. In its prefs, set one of the inputs as an Interapplication MIDI port. Load the same piano sound in standalone MSI.
- Change the output of the MIDI track in DP from the MSI instrument track to the Interapplication MIDI port (turn record-enable off to prevent a MIDI feedback loop).
- When you play back now, it should play through the standalone MSI app.

If you get any difference in how it plays back, you might want to e-mail MOTU the DP project file and describe what you did.

papageno · Post by **papageno** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 11:53 am

Just to eliminate one more issue:
* locate your MOTU Symphonic Instrument.app
* select "get info" in Finder

** check that "Open using Rosetta" checkbox is unchecked

If you see this checked on Intel Mac you have found the problem.

lehrman · Post by **lehrman** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 12:07 pm

Another good idea!
Alas, it is unchecked.

papageno wrote:Just to eliminate one more issue:
* locate your MOTU Symphonic Instrument.app
* select "get info" in Finder

** check that "Open using Rosetta" checkbox is unchecked

If you see this checked on Intel Mac you have found the problem.

papageno · Post by **papageno** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 12:22 pm

Next, eliminate the keyboard issue:
* download application MidiPipe 1.4.1 (use versiontracker.com for example), it is freeware
* create a pipe in MidiPipe, using 3 Tools (left side of MidiPipe window,double-click to get it to the pipe on right side)
1. MIDI In (select your keyboard)
2. Message Filter (let only Note On/Off through)
3. MIDI Out (select MidiPipe Output 1)

** now set MIDI input for standalone MSI to MidiPipe Output 1 and play.

This way you can eliminate that something from your keyboard is not messing up MSI. If this solves your problem then you can allow different types of MIDI data in MidiPipe's Message Filter to get to the bottom of the problem.

lehrman · Post by **lehrman** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 12:47 pm

Okay...I had tried that before, but couldn't get any meaningful information because I didn't realize MIDI Pipe's filter function is sort of backwards: checking on a command filters it OUT.

So now I've got that working, and I've checked (i.e. filtered out) everything except note on/off . And the result is...same problem: missed and stuck notes. No change at all.

I put an "AList" object between the filter and the output to make sure that it's only notes that are getting through, and that is indeed what's happening...Yet, MSI is not a happy puppy.
Very strange, eh?

papageno wrote:Next, eliminate the keyboard issue:
* download application MidiPipe 1.4.1 (use versiontracker.com for example), it is freeware
* create a pipe in MidiPipe, using 3 Tools (left side of MidiPipe window,double-click to get it to the pipe on right side)
1. MIDI In (select your keyboard)
2. Message Filter (let only Note On/Off through)
3. MIDI Out (select MidiPipe Output 1)

** now set MIDI input for standalone MSI to MidiPipe Output 1 and play.

This way you can eliminate that something from your keyboard is not messing up MSI. If this solves your problem then you can allow different types of MIDI data in MidiPipe's Message Filter to get to the bottom of the problem.

carrythebanner · Post by **carrythebanner** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 1:16 pm

Hmm. Try sending MIDI from DP via the Interapplication MIDI bus into MSI (like before), but also send MIDI Beat Clock from DP into MSI. It won't do anything in MSI, but it will help simulate your keyboard controller which is sending beat clock. You can send beat clock under DP's Transmit Sync page.