Looking at returning to DP from Logic

[paboblaustein]

Hello all. I've been scoring with these programs for about 5 years now. I started on DP 2.7, moved to DP 3.2, and then crossed over to Logic a couple years ago and now use Logic 7.1.1 on a dual 1Ghz G4 with OS X 10.4.4.

...and I don't think I can take Logic anymore.

Firstly, I will never be as happy as I was with DP 3.2 and OS 9.2.2. That really was the dream system. It was so responsive and snappy, easy to use, and relatively low on bugs. It was for the most part, a pleasure to use. Using Logic is like slapping yourself in the face repeatedly...hard. I got into Logic kind of on a whim, because everyone talked about how "powerful" it was, and it's popularity for scoring. Well, that's a bunch of cr@p as far as I'm concerned. Sure, it's infinitely customizable, but the basic architecture is so ridiculous. It's far too unweildy and convoluted. I know there are some users out there that have created really specific ways of setting up their environments and key commands and love it. But I would rather use a program that has a certain (and good) way of doing things, and then learn that method, and be happy. Not only is Logic ridiculously confusing in their nomenclature and the way they set things up and spread them out over a plethora of little windows, folders, menus, sub menus, pages...blah...but the program really is riddled with so many bugs...especially on the scoring side. The notation aspect is nearly unusuable. There are new bugs that seem to crop up with every Logic and/or OS update. There are plenty of things that It's very unreliable and make it hardly a "pro" program. Logic is now putting spurious bar lines in random places, and the bar numbers will run backwards, and change between staves. I mention that specifically only because it's the most recent problem I've had to deal with.

And sync'ing to another rig via MTC? Issues.

Anyway, the more that time goes on, the more I long for the good 'ol days with DP in OS 9, but I don't think I can go back now. We're all VI's and plugs, and it won't really work to go backwards now.

Whew...this is turning into a rant.

The question I wanted to ask is:
How is DP standing up to Logic? What major bugs are plaguing DP 4.6? How is the VI integration? I've been reading that it's not handling VI's as well as Logic. I'd like to hear from other people using it to score to picture. How's QuickScribe these days? How is slaving to a Pro Tools rig chasing SMPTE via MTC? How stable is the audio engine? Logic does have a very slick VI setup, but in all other areas...it is second to DP in my opinion. I've been on Logic for three years now, and it just doesn't do it for me like DP did. Of course, I learned on DP, so that probably factors in. But Logic seems so convoluted, bloated, and it's absolutely unreliable for scoring to picture. It hasn't always been that way, but if you upgrade as they release it (as I have)...then you're in trouble.

So I'd love to hear some opinions and feedback about things to love and things to look out for in the new version of DP.

Thanks!

Rob

[chrispick]

You'll get mixed responses from people on this site, I think.

FWIW, I use DP 4.61 with OS 10.4.4 on a dual 2.0 G5 to score-to-picture and everything works great. I use a lot of third-party VIs from different vendors and all hold up. For me, it's stable.

I don't MTC sync to others, so I can't comment on that. It appears that some folk using DP and MTC with USB MIDI gear have run into some problems.

The upcoming DP 5 will ship with a number of basic, native VIs (e.g., drum machine, soft synth, etc.), should that interest you. I prefer the "a la carte" approach to choosing VIs, but I welcome these new internal ones. MOTU's also introducing some nice, new audio editing capabilities with this upgrade. Search this site for more info.

I'd suggest if you decide to jump back to DP you should also pick up a newer system. DP 4-and-higher plays nicer with newer gear. Again, search this site for more info.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Same system as Chris here (Dual 2.0) but prior to a few months ago, I was running on a G4 QSilver with a Sonnet 1.4 gHz upgrade. MANY audio tracks, long sequences (2+ hours) with MachFive, MX4 and plug=ins up the wazoo. Hardly a glitch. (Of course, a couple of 120MB or better HDs and plenty of RAM are essential - 1.25GB RAM then; 2.5 GB now.)

Scoring to picture for me is ALWAYS to a quicktime movie and it is always 100% spot on. 2 pops or a visual countdown and sync is never an issue. Gave up MTC and SMPTE several years ago, so I cannot provide any info there.

Quickscribe seems stable when I use it for a quick hard copy, but my scores are always done in Finale. I'm a little compulsive about how they look and saving as much time in rehear$al$ is e$$ential.

I would think that your current system could handle DP 4.61 (and hopefully 5, due out shortly - like in months). DP is highly stable for me with an occasional sudden quit or -192 error that a file cannot be saved. But restarts always fix these. And in the last 6 months, I think that has happened twice. I tend to multi-task and run things like Safari and Photoshop, Word, Finale, etc., in the background.

I saw a demo of Logic when it was an eMagic product back when I was still using an Atari and hated the interface. I stuck with EditTrack for years until I had to move to a Mac to score for full orchestra. Studio Vision Pro on the Mac was close to EditTrack and I really liked it, but thanks to Gibson I had to move to a different program for sequencing. DP and I did not play well in version 2.7, but once I got used the the interface, it became so easy to use I don't even think about it.

Talk about rants! I'll stop. But at $500

http://www.americanmusical.com/item--i- ... -motu.html

it is well worth making the jump BACK. Aside from the many users here, a lot of pros I know are using DP for post work. Many are starting to abandon PTools for DP as well.

Hope that helps.

[homebilly]

it's all about the QT movie. i have a 2nd mac that i am triggering in logic and that works fine. no mtc or other syncing needed for me. i use logic only to load samples and that's about all i can take.

my main rig is a dual 1.42 and i have no crashes and no problems. usually a mach V running a trilogy patch and 3 or 4 atmospheres inside as well as the occasional Culture or darbuka VI.

the whole chunks way of scoring has changed my musical life. it is so efficient and FAST.

give it a good look. and with the new film scoring features that they have added i can't see a reason not to come back home.

good luck

[billf]

I have both Logic 7.1.1 and DP 4.6.1. I prefer DP.

I use MTC, outboard MIDI gear, and a couple of VI's. My system has been very stable. The config I'm using is a dual 2.7 G5, two internal drives, 10.4.3, the latest drivers, MTP-AV, 828mkII, and a 2408mkII (and of course a 424-pci card). The system is used for both audio and video.


There are a number of people who have reported MIDI problems (stuck notes), and others who are having CPU spike issues. I haven't experienced either yet (knock on wood). Almost everyone is hoping DP5 has some under the hood optimization though.

Anyway YMMV, but my preference is still with DP.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

There are a number of people who have reported MIDI problems (stuck notes)

Count me in that group. But I am convinced they are CoreMIDI and not a DP problem, per se. (Could be wrong, however.)

[paboblaustein]

Thanks for all the replies, fellas. Sounds like the weather is fairly good in DPland.

We are pretty much completely reliant upon VI's. Using anywhere from 10-30+ of them in any given project. Anyone able to comment on large VI setups?

And any word on when DP 5 is due out? (I know it's a silly question to ask, but I must)

[chrispick]

We are pretty much completely reliant upon VI's. Using anywhere from 10-30+ of them in any given project. Anyone able to comment on large VI setups?

With my set-up (system stats below)...

10 different VIs are not a problem. 30 different VIs would likely be pretty difficult without printing some audio to disk.

Of course, this totally depends on the VIs. Some are greater CPU hogs than others. I have a few that eat up nearly 30% of CPU power. Most, however, are much more processor-efficient.

And, it also depends on how much polyphony you assign to a VI. If you're accustomed to tweaking polyphony, you'll be fine.

Lastly, it also depends on the size of samples used. For example, it's usually not a problem for me to have a single instance of MachFive running with all channels loaded. That's 16 online samples right there. I often have more than that.

I don't know if that helps, but it maybe gives you some scope?