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Since it's time to retire the old console I'm thinking of going to a consoleless setup. i have a few questions for those of you who are doing it currently.

1. Headphone cue: I suppose i can set up cue mix to send out of my 2408 to a headphone system. pretty basic.

2. Talkback: Does that really work in cue mix? Personally i don't like the idea of having to use it during overdubs and may get a dedicated controller like the SPL/Dangerous 2 buss or something.

3. Mixing with outboard stuff: I'm not hip on buying into the summing box thing but i may need 16 channels for mults and other stuff. The Neve and EMI units look great but it's only money.

4. Issues: Anyone having problems making it work? Any suggestions for someone who tracks a lot of full bands?

Gee, Im thinking of going back to a console...

I'm a mixerless guy, but I only run a writing/project studio. Using outboard gear such as verbs (which I do) is easy since time align is less crucial. It becomes a much bigger issue with compressers, eq's etc.

Combine that with rigging your cue sends for headphones or verb while tracking etc., and there seems to be a need for too many "workarounds" to make console-less recording worth the hassle if you spend much of your time recording live bands.

The simplicity is great in my world, but I could not take on a large multitrack record

Just my feeling...

Don't the talkback systems from Dangerous and SPL cost about as much as a smallish mixer? Why retire you current mixer? If it has bad pots/switches/channels/caps - as long as the paths you will be using for cue and monitor are reasonably functional just use the mixer for those functions.
The Mackie 8 buss series has a decent monitor section- two good headphone amps with switching/combining, and CR input select. If you can get a clean used 16.8 or 24.8 for around the price of a Dangerous or SPL you would also be getting (with the Mackie) extra mic pres for large sessions,potential for faster adjustments to cues mixes etc.
Or something like the Big Knob can do CR routing, but isn't really set up for 2 different headphone mixes in addition to the CR monitoring.
Before discarding anything perhaps try a session without using the mixer.
Feedback into the phones from the talkback is not fun, so watch that there is not a danger of that with the setups you are considering.

Fibes wrote:Since it's time to retire the old console I'm thinking of going to a consoleless setup. i have a few questions for those of you who are doing it currently.

1. Headphone cue: I suppose I can set up cue mix to send out of my 2408 to a headphone system. pretty basic.

2. Talkback: Does that really work in cue mix? Personally i don't like the idea of having to use it during overdubs and may get a dedicated controller like the SPL/Dangerous 2 buss or something.

3. Mixing with outboard stuff: I'm not hip on buying into the summing box thing but i may need 16 channels for mults and other stuff. The Neve and EMI units look great but it's only money.

4. Issues: Anyone having problems making it work? Any suggestions for someone who tracks a lot of full bands?

I am mixerless. 2408mk3 is my main front end. with 2 8ch Mic Pre to ADAT Interfaces for a total of 16 mic inputs and 8 Line level inputs (or however I config)

So how do I do it.....

1. Headphones. I take a mix off the main outs 1/2 into an 8 ch headphone amp. I also set up HP amp CH 6-8 as independant mixes for tracking bands. those feed off of MOTU outs 3/4, 5/6, and 7/8 respectively. I can configure all the mixes via Cuemix and of course output a feed from the recorded tracks via sends, etc...

2. Talkback. For the main mixes I use a Central Station and it's wonderful talkback button. For the other mixes send a mic input into a mic channel (or a pre into a line in) and route that to all the mixes via CueMix.

3. Well you have answered your Q's it seems for this point or am I not understanding you. Courtesy of the DSP on the 424 card I use outboard verbs integrated into my mixing. When I need to print, I just use stereo audio tracks to print the verb returns and BTD my final mix. I do plan on a traveler so I can use CueMix bounce back to record the final mix with all the goodies attached in real time.

4. I use this on A ROUTINE basis as I track a lot of bands. Drums, Bass, Gtr, Keys. Normally 12 inputs on drums, 2 keys and 2 for bass and gtr unless I Do gtr in stereo. All is well.

Keep in mind I do a lot of large track projects as well 60-100 tracks before bouncing for mixing.

I have been mixerless since 2003 6 months after I purchased my 2408mk3 (Dec 2002)

spirit wrote:Don't the talkback systems from Dangerous and SPL cost about as much as a smallish mixer? Why retire you current mixer?

Before discarding anything perhaps try a session without using the mixer.
Feedback into the phones from the talkback is not fun, so watch that there is not a danger of that with the setups you are considering.

Yeah and that cost makes me cringe. I'm retiring the mixer for 2 reasons, it's my partners and it's a Mackie 8 Buss. The only thing i use it for currently is headphone and talkback and the talkback switch is about to go. Replacing it is a PITA and since it's time to rewire/renovate i figure it's time to reconfig. Plus it'd be nice to have the Mackie Controls in front of me...

As much as the "summing fad" pains me I'm thinking i'm still going to need a small mixer (Neve 8816, The Aurora audio one or the EMI) for some projects (it will also come in handy for remote stuff). I don't like the way the mackie sounds, it takes up space and has seen better days so change is in order.

The SPL has the 2 input summing for the cue which seems like a nice idea since 99% of the time that's how i use the Mackie during overdubs. I'm thinking one of those more me headphone systems would work great coming out of the barely used 2408.

Thanks for the discussion