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My Question is especially about the RAM Performance !
My old Mac Pro 6.1. late 2013 had 64 GB-RAM.

Are the 16 GB RAM ( with the new SoC-System ) on the Mini enough, maybe for bigger Libraries as SuperiorDrummer or VST's like u-he Synth's ect. ?

What's your experience ?

Greets Lito

Just to tack onto your question, what about the M1 MBP Max or Pro?

stubbsonic wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 8:32 am Just to tack onto your question, what about the M1 MBP Max or Pro?

Has the Mac Mini with 16 GB RAM enough performance? ( My 6.1. Mac from 2013 has 64 GB RAM )

When the Mac Mini M1 maybe has to less RAM, is it better looking for a MBP M1 with 32 GB RAM ?

64GB RAM seems like the bare minimum needed for large sample libraries. The M1 Max MBP is the only configuration that allows that currently. ...although there should be Macs with more RAM coming along later in the year.

The efficiency of unified RAM in the M1 is way better than the discrete RAM of the Intel Macs — so is the GPU. For AV, only the high end iMac Pro and Mac Pro 7.1 outperform these.

I’ve not seen any chart that says x amount of unified RAM equals xy amount of discrete RAM, only overall performance figures—but they are impressive. These figures are done with Logic (it is Apple, after all) but an 6 core i7 Intel MINI with 32GB RAM can run over 1,000 tracks with a separate instance of a VI and reverb on each track (the comparison was a 12 core MP 6.1 with 64GB RAM that choked on 300 tracks).

I can’t imagine a 16GB M1 Mini running worse and the integrated 8 Core GPU smokes the Intel. There are those who claim that the 8GBRAM/8Core/7coreGPU M1 like my wife’s outperforms any Intel Mini—I can't verify that.

Back to the M1 Mini: Do we really want to cheap out over $200 for 16GB over 8GB RAM when we spend so much time at these? If buying now, I’d go 16GB/16Core/(all M1 Minis have 8core GPU).

I’ve played with DP 11.04 on my wife’s M1 MBAir and it is quite good — hers has 8GB unified. That’s not much of a test, however.

Then there is the fact that, the more RAM you have, the more apps you can have open. Browsers, especially, use far more than anyone ever thinks.

Unless doing large amounts of Photoshop, animation or intense AV, it’s hard to believe that any of us need more than 16GB for audio. No way that I’ll get less than 32GB when Apple finally releases the iMP replacement, though. I want my projects to render quickly and am spoiled by my current machine—if the next one isn’t faster, what’s the point?

Since I have no need for a MBP running DP, I’ll let others speculate on the Pro and Max chips.

Quite honestly I never ran into RAM limits using regular non sample based plugins and linear DAWs. The only times I run into RAM limitations with a DAW are with large sample libraries, and with Clips. In Ableton Live with clips it was possible to max out RAM because of how much data was being stored there for time stretching algorithms and loading a small amount of data into RAM to facilitate faster clip firing. That being said, 16GB is a bare minimum IMO for what we do regardless of how much better the M1's are at dealing with RAM.

Personally if you're talking the difference between the MBP and the Mini, then you're not worried about portability. With that in mind, the Mini can support two external monitors without Display Link, and has more ports. Also personally, it's possible that a M1 Pro and Max Mac Mini is released in the next 5 months, if you can wait for that, it might be the way to go.

Michael Canavan wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 1:12 pm Quite honestly I never ran into RAM limits using regular non sample based plugins and linear DAWs. The only times I run into RAM limitations with a DAW are with large sample libraries, and with Clips. In Ableton Live with clips it was possible to max out RAM because of how much data was being stored there for time stretching algorithms and loading a small amount of data into RAM to facilitate faster clip firing. That being said, 16GB is a bare minimum IMO for what we do regardless of how much better the M1's are at dealing with RAM.

Personally if you're talking the difference between the MBP and the Mini, then you're not worried about portability. With that in mind, the Mini can support two external monitors without Display Link, and has more ports. Also personally, it's possible that a M1 Pro and Max Mac Mini is released in the next 5 months, if you can wait for that, it might be the way to go.

Indeed. The replacement for the 27" iMacs including the Pro, next MP and a beefier Mini are all rumored to be out by Fall 2022. As the Beach Boys sang, "Savin' my nickels, savin' my dimes…"

mikehalloran wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 1:17 pm Indeed. The replacement for the 27" iMacs including the Pro, next MP and a beefier Mini are all rumored to be out by Fall 2022. As the Beach Boys sang, "Savin' my nickels, savin' my dimes…"

Yep, my strategy for the M1 transition is to get the Air, which is just a design masterpiece really, and use it with VEP and the Mac Pro until developers are all on board the Apple Silicon train, at that point getting the desktop to retire the Mac Pro with. I'm just delving into orchestral type composing really, but yeah RAM needs are a hell of a lot more in that world, so it's always possible I switch to a Windows PC for a sample library slave, the apple tax to match the 96GB RAM in this old mac pro might be too rich for my blood.

There's a guy who composes for NIN over at VI control who bought the maxed out M1 Max, 64GB RAM, 8TB ssd etc. This thread reminds me to see how he's getting along with his master plan to see if he could do it all in one machine VS a couple computers, with those specs.

Michael Canavan wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 1:34 pm

mikehalloran wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 1:17 pm Indeed. The replacement for the 27" iMacs including the Pro, next MP and a beefier Mini are all rumored to be out by Fall 2022. As the Beach Boys sang, "Savin' my nickels, savin' my dimes…"

Yep, my strategy for the M1 transition is to get the Air, which is just a design masterpiece really, and use it with VEP and the Mac Pro until developers are all on board the Apple Silicon train, at that point getting the desktop to retire the Mac Pro with. I'm just delving into orchestral type composing really, but yeah RAM needs are a hell of a lot more in that world, so it's always possible I switch to a Windows PC for a sample library slave, the apple tax to match the 96GB RAM in this old mac pro might be too rich for my blood.

There's a guy who composes for NIN over at VI control who bought the maxed out M1 Max, 64GB RAM, 8TB ssd etc. This thread reminds me to see how he's getting along with his master plan to see if he could do it all in one machine VS a couple computers, with those specs.

While the Air is a sweet little machine as I've already found out (found hers in the Refurb Store before Christmas!), I'm sure we will all want to know how your friend is getting along with The Beast.

mikehalloran wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:26 pm While the Air is a sweet little machine as I've already found out (found hers in the Refurb Store before Christmas!), I'm sure we will all want to know how your friend is getting along with The Beast.

For sure, I bought the air used near new, so that was half the reason, but having everything on a laptop that you can move around appeals to me. Plus those flash drives in the new machines are so fast!! I actually think it's worth paying for the maxed out one in a laptop. So if it can keep up with orchestral stuff, I might sell this Air and go full in.

The big takeaway I get from this is I will have to wait for Kontakt to go native m1 to move to using a laptop alone.
In this page the posts with Logic CPU meters point out how badly Kontakt runs on M1 with Logic in native, VS both in Rosetta.
https://vi-control.net/community/thread ... 56/page-54

Thanks a lot for your answers !
For my requirements the M1 Mini would be enough, concerning from your descriptions. I don't use big orchester lib's and use only Superiordrummer for my own projects and maybe 2 Synth or Organ VI's. ( typical Band-Situations )
The only I hope it's possible to load the Inserts and Sends from the separate audio tracks with plugins for the typical editing without cpu problems.
But I think the M1 should be a winner

Michael Canavan wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:02 pm The big takeaway I get from this is I will have to wait for Kontakt to go native m1 to move to using a laptop alone.
In this page the posts with Logic CPU meters point out how badly Kontakt runs on M1 with Logic in native, VS both in Rosetta.
https://vi-control.net/community/thread ... 56/page-54

Since Pro Tools is still not native, I suspect that’s the 800Lb gorilla in the room. I’ve heard that PACE (iLok), Antares and a few others are waiting for AVID—hadn’t occurred to me that NI was in the same boat.

Perhaps by Winter NAMM 2021 happening June 2022?

mikehalloran wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 2:20 pm

Michael Canavan wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:02 pm The big takeaway I get from this is I will have to wait for Kontakt to go native m1 to move to using a laptop alone.
In this page the posts with Logic CPU meters point out how badly Kontakt runs on M1 with Logic in native, VS both in Rosetta.
https://vi-control.net/community/thread ... 56/page-54

Since Pro Tools is still not native, I suspect that’s the 800Lb gorilla in the room. I’ve heard that PACE (iLok), Antares and a few others are waiting for AVID—hadn’t occurred to me that NI was in the same boat.

Perhaps by Winter NAMM 2021 happening June 2022?

It's pretty much a repeat of PPC to Intel for NI. NI were persuaded like everyone else for years previous to the announcement of Intel Macs to switch to Xcode from Codewarrier, but they didn't, so it took them forever to port to PPC. In this case it's their GUI code, a guy who works with them over at KVR flatly states that their GUIs are all 15 years old, and not consistent, plugs ins do not use the same framework. It's why they don't have resizable windows or VST3 for the most part as well as M1 support. NI backed themselves into a corner again. To be fair they're in that awkward business size, 70+ employees from what I remember, they have financial deadlines and profit concerns that get in the way of maintenance of the backbone for their software, no profit from that..

So I would guess Pro Tools, Sound Toys, Plugin Alliance, etc. all get ported before NI sort their things out, iLok will definitely beat NI.

Just saw that NI released a new M1 native version of Kontakt.