MOTUnation.com

I have been using DP since v2.7 and I had high hopes of v10 when it came out but I was really disappointed for many reasons... (especially Clips)
Recently I decided to start using Logic Pro for good after they updated to v10.5. I definitely believe now that Logic Pro will be so ahead from now on after introducing so many great features.
Using DP for over 25 years everyday and now switching to Logic made me a little sad because I loved DP...

Thank you DP for all the great musical ideas that you have given me but now is time to say goodbye.

That's lovely. Thank you for sharing.

Interesting. I'm following the exact inverse path: crossgraded to DP a few weeks ago and giving up on Logic, because it's too illogic and untidy for my taste. I loved working on stage with MainStage but with Logic, I always feel I'm fighting the computer instead of making music.

Back to DP after decades: I used Performer in its early years and love is intact.

A guy with 5 posts feels the need to log in, and spend time writing that post for telling us that....

Thanks for sharing?

(<---- Emoticon for Hilary Hahn, for some agitated "good bye" music https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIeMQpFLbrg )

FMiguelez wrote:A guy with 5 posts feels the need to log in, and spend time writing that post for telling us that....

Thanks for sharing?

I was hopeful that sarcasm detectors would be enabled among the members here...

I think it was maybe 10 - 12 years ago (maybe more) when I decided to leave DP and try Logic Pro, but back then Logic was a hot mess. I came right back to DP. There were a few basic functions (I remember "SNIP" was one) that were just unavailable in any way in Logic Pro.

It's entirely possible that I was too lazy or fixed in my ways to surmount the learning curve.

My take home was that no software of this magnitude of complexity is perfect, so you have to choose the flaws you can live/work with.

The OP having been with DP for this long needed to say goodbye. That's intense, and I can relate. Even though there's not much activity from this person on this forum, that doesn't mean they weren't in deep with the software and even this community. That's just how some people roll.

After that many years, all I can say is best of luck with Logic. I sincerely would love it if you'd post here on how your transition goes. What you end up loving in Logic, and what you end up missing from DP.

Of course, if you decide the move didn't work for you, we'll keep a cold one in the fridge for you. Best of luck!!!

BWidemann wrote:Interesting. I'm following the exact inverse path: crossgraded to DP a few weeks ago and giving up on Logic, because it's too illogic and untidy for my taste. I loved working on stage with MainStage but with Logic, I always feel I'm fighting the computer instead of making music.

Back to DP after decades: I used Performer in its early years and love is intact.

And a warm and genuine "Welcome Back!" to you Mr. Widemann.

As you note "iLogic" may have been a better choice for Apple; it certainly would have followed the company's naming convention.

HCMarkus wrote:

BWidemann wrote:Interesting. I'm following the exact inverse path: crossgraded to DP a few weeks ago and giving up on Logic, because it's too illogic and untidy for my taste. I loved working on stage with MainStage but with Logic, I always feel I'm fighting the computer instead of making music.

Back to DP after decades: I used Performer in its early years and love is intact.

And a warm and genuine "Welcome Back!" to you Mr. Widemann.

So now we need some "Welcome Back" music too... For BWidemann

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7vJ2UFbeXA

OMG! So damned beautiful!!!!!

Thanks! Actually I spent some time in Studio One too before coming back to DP. Every DAW has its good sides and trying them is definitely interesting.

The business model of Studio One is especially interesting: they have a free version, cross-platform, very simple but quite complete already with audio and MIDI and a couple of good plugins, perfectly workable. If you need to launch a collaboration with other musicians that vary among platforms and software, it may be an approach worth exploring because it eliminates the hassles of converting projects and losing some data every time...

Alas, serious projects require upgrade to their Pro version, which I did too... and I was amazed by its sheer unfriendliness, compared to their simpler, slimmer free version. Used it for a while but quickly begun to fight with the computer again.

Then I crossgraded to DP. Feels like putting my feet in old slippers.

I switched from DP 2.7 to Logic 4.7 over a bug in DP, and because MAS plug ins were given a premium price compared to the same VST.

Logic is fantastic in a lot of ways, the zooming in Logic is top notch IMO, beats every other approach. Logic also doesn't differentiate controllers and software instruments by port, it's a total PITA to set up two different MIDI keyboards to two different software instruments. I don't think it's even possible with MPE devices, since they take all 16 MIDI channels. It's not a haven for CPU optimization either, it's comparable to DP10 but at least here it tends to overload a single CPU quicker. It's own Alchemy plug in will overload my 12 core 3.3 ghz mac pro on certain patches. The included content is just better than the rest though, Sculpture and Alchemy, the new sampler etc. Oh, and the GUI, you get one choice, and it changes drastically from version to version.

Compare this to DP. DP has a slow progress issue, I said it. Clips are in need of an update, noted bugs, and some inconsistencies in the way it all works with the rest of the program. Apple teamed with Novation so there are 8x8 controllers available for Logics clips right away, we get MIDI learn. MPE is still not there, articulation mapping is absent. For a lot of people separate MIDI tracks for virtual instruments is just awkward, (DP is the only DAW I know of that does this) etc. etc.
DP also has solutions, I'm sure you can pull it off in other DAWs but for instance you can very quickly assign 16 MIDI tracks to a VSTi, toss them in a folder and Group their record buttons. They then do MPE just fine, and since DP differentiates MIDI by port it's not impossible to have my Roli Rise 49 and MPK88 hooked up to two different VSTi's etc.

I've been messing with Bitwig, cool little DAW, super easy macro modulation capability, well integrated Clips, great controller support, including a fantastic global VSTi macro knob/slider assigning function, basically Komplete Control built in. A hardware instrument plug in that has hardware delay compensation built in you can control yourself if it gets it wrong etc. It also has the absolute worst keyboard short cut implementation I've run into. Most shortcuts are panel specific, you have to first select the panel to activate the shortcut, which would insinuate that you can assign the same shortcut to a different or similar function in the Arrangement as the Mixer for instance, but you can't It's just weird, I can't get why they decided to implement it completely differently than everyone else, and it's worse.


Long story short, there are compromises you make with every DAW, there is no golden pony. I've pretty much decided to stick with DP mostly because it's got the most workarounds that don't involve me learning code in my 50's.

I've solved my articulation mappings lust with the Drum editor by saving an edit track with Comments that work as visual key switches.

MidiPipe and some persistence and my Akai controllers all send transport to DP10. My template opens MidiPipe so it's painless now.

MPE is a matter of Create Tracks, then grouping for arming the record, it's maybe 15 seconds to set up.

I can't really fix Clips, but I'm pretty certain MOTU will do something about them. Hard to imagine they're going to let Logic have iPad and Novation control of Clips while they only get MIDI learn. Really the main thing I miss in DP that other DAWs are doing well is controller support, and it's not a deal breaker.

Thanks, M.C., that was illuminating.

Interesting! Thanks for the details.

HCMarkus wrote:

FMiguelez wrote:A guy with 5 posts feels the need to log in, and spend time writing that post for telling us that....

Thanks for sharing?

I was hopeful that sarcasm detectors would be enabled among the members here...

Irony and sarcasm don't seem to have carried over to the internet all that well. Trolling on the other hand ...

LogicPro, including 10.5, is not without its problems. And this is coming from someone who is currently working mostly in LogicPro. I have not moved away yet, primarily because of articulation set support and Scripter. If DP ever added those two things, I would be back to DP 100%, mainly because of chunks and other film score related features.

Also what I really like about LogicPro are the MIDI regions which don't really exist in DP, though they are in the Performer Lite thing, so maybe that will find its way to DP eventually.

Every DAW has its pros and cons, we've all heard that line a hundred times....but its true. A lot of it is whatever you become proficient at. LogicPro does stand out as the most affordable DAW by a wide margin and it out performs its cost by a wide margin, but Apple is clearly not planning to make money on it, I guess they feel it helps to sell more macs or something. That can be a good thing and a bad thing. LogicPro, I suppose like most DAW's, has a long list of unfixed problems and bugs that people have been complaining about for years...some of them significantly serious. For example, automation does not correct for Plugin delay properly. PDC is also messed up with side chaining. Its been like that for years already.

But anyway, all that being said, I still currently choose to work mostly with LogicPro because of Scripter and Articulation Set support; and secondarily because of MIDI regions and generally just the way the GUI looks I think its the best in the business; Apple completely knows what it is doing in terms of GUI design better then just about anybody in the world.

But... If MOTU ever gets around to a little better MIDI plugin support, perhaps a scripter...and definitely some kind of articulation Management....and please oh please......MIDI regions... I would probably hop to the well worn DP bandwagon for a good long stay...

In any case, I have bought just about every DAW that is out now....what the hell...its fun to explore them all... they all have some pros and cons...so enjoy your ride on LogicPro...it can be fun in a lot of ways....

dewdman42 wrote:LogicPro, I suppose like most DAW's, has a long list of unfixed problems and bugs that people have been complaining about for years...some of them significantly serious.

This is one of two things that have put me off using it more. It's difficult to learn something as complicated as a DAW with this many bugs, because when something doesn't work as expected, you don't know if it's because you did something wrong or because of a bug.

The other thing is the workflow. A lot of functions in Logic seem to have been tossed in with little thought about how it integrates with the other functions. This is one thing that MOTU is very good at --- if you know how some things work, it's not so difficult to guess how other things work.

I agree with you about MIDI. If you want to dive into the deep end, DP is great, but for basic MIDI edits and arranging, you can do it faster in Logic. MIDI Clips helps, but we're not quite there yet.