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I found my old Benjamin "The Craft of Modal Counterpoint", and I'm brushing up on it. However, I quickly realized I should go back further in time all the way back to Gregorian Chant and especially Organum.

I am FLOORED by the beauty of Organum of the early Medieval music in general , especially when they started combining parallel singing, contrary and oblique motion with the handling of dissonance of the time.
This is how our western music was conceived and how it started (with lots of misunderstood concepts from the Greeks).
There's something about the Church modes, the lines, the cadences, the handling of DISSONANCE, etc. It's so damn interesting to learn this stuff, as it allows a great understanding of the Renaissance and Baroque periods, as well as more modern linear writing styles such as Hindemith's and Schoenberg's.

For your listening pleasure, here is an early example of the beginnings of Organum...




And here is a more complex example with a more modern take, with one of my favourite bands of all time> Dead Can Dance.
Listen to the modal interchange in the vocal lines! It's gorgeous! From Aeolian to Mixolydian b6 to Harmonic Minor !! (in the solo vocal parts) There's nothing like beautiful simple sung modal melodies... And Lisa Gerard is... well, wonderful. Just listen and enjoy!




Is anyone here into this stuff? Any early modal counterpoint users here?
It definitely looks like I've found one of my 2020 obsessions...

Oh, one more. This is even better. It's music straight from the sky with naked angels and everything... (wait to the ending so you can hear some of the most gorgeous polyphonic writing in this style. Just listen to those gorgeous suspensions! A-ma-zing!

Ok, the last one, I promise.

Just listen to those amazing NON-STANDARD cadences as the piece progresses (especially the last ones - some end in 8ve/unisons, some "standard" and some quite strangely -even for our modern ears. Compare the 2 examples which are based on the same Cantus).
It's so fun to sing along and pick any of the voices. You can really feel the power of the modes and cadential lines like this!

This is how harmony started, with individual lines that became customary idioms at places.

I'm not sure how "modernized" this particular example is, but if anyone knows of authentic performances like this non-standard counterpoint of the time ("rebels"), I'd appreciate it if you let me know




This second (and better) version is REALLY out there for the sound of the time. I strongly suspect this is a modernised take by Dead Can Dance and this was never sung like this in the 13th-14th century. But if you know of such examples, PLEASE SHARE THEM>

I think this one is quite amazing. This is my ABSOLUTE FAVOURITE. Listen to those quite strange cadences and lines...



Wow!

I've come to the conclusion that music can be hypnotic and the first function of good composition is to place the listener in a hypnotic state. Repetition does this. Pedal point, especially with interesting motion above it, also does this. All the examples you provided do this to some degree and all do it beautifully.

That's on the adagio side of things. Highly rhythmic repetition (as well as free form, non repeating phrases done with craft) can also accomplish the hypnotic state. Many examples come to mind (for like every fuç%^ing "successful" work ever written). Opening of Beethoven's 5th. Opening of Star Wars. Pretty much ANYTHING by Michael Jackson and every other great rocker. In a lot of music (especially theater music) the vamp serves multiple purposes. Waiting for the singers to catch up to the performance (lol) but also to set the pace you want the audience to accept as "time passing" at that moment. Deep stuff.

Grab them in the cerebellum and their hearts and minds are soon to follow. A different part of the male anatomy is usually used in that quote originally. Use your imagination.

Lovely stuff. FM. Hope all is going well. How's the system and machine situation? Settled into an OS? Mojave seems to be my last Mac OS for the very far future, but it's working out well.

Fun tip. I just clicked all these YouTube links and started them all playing at once.

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:I've come to the conclusion that music can be hypnotic and the first function of good composition is to place the listener in a hypnotic state.

You nailed it with that word (emphasis mine). That's exactly the effect this music has on many of us who can appreciate it.

Wanna add to the hypnotic state? Sing along some of your favourite lines, especially with parallel 4ths or 5ths. After a while you feel your face and chest sort of "vibrating".

MIDI Life Crisis wrote: Repetition does this. Pedal point, especially with interesting motion above it, also does this. All the examples you provided do this to some degree and all do it beautifully.

Agreed. There's nothing simpler or more powerful than a pedal point with well-crafted moving lines above. And tasty repetition adds even more, especially if subtly varied, as in the examples.

MIDI Life Crisis wrote: Lovely stuff. FM. Hope all is going well. How's the system and machine situation? Settled into an OS? Mojave seems to be my last Mac OS for the very far future, but it's working out well.

I've been putting it off 'cause now I'm in the middle of a production, but it looks like I will settle for DP10 with Mojave for now. I have some reading to do about the new Apple filing system and how it changes some things like partitions and things that you guys have been mentioning in the forum.

I'm glad you liked all the music examples, Mike. Though it didn't surprise me since you obviously have an educated ear and this stuff is just wonderful

stubbsonic wrote:Fun tip. I just clicked all these YouTube links and started them all playing at once.

Canon galore!

The BEST thing about this music, is that, as old as it is, it can be adapted to our modern times and be stupidly effective if we incorporate it into our writing! It can even sound VERY MODERN. Even now, each mode really gives us so different feelings and we react to them in different ways.
All this modal stuff really shaped and influenced my writing style since college. It provides a simple yet amazingly effective harmonic vocabulary for so many scoring situations.

During the evening I will provide a few examples where ancient music like this has been successfully adapted and used in film scoring and modern songs extremely effectively

FMiguelez wrote:...you obviously have an educated ear and this stuff...

Education schmedgucation! If it sounds good, it is good.

stubbsonic wrote:Fun tip. I just clicked all these YouTube links and started them all playing at once.

good one Stubbs!

Ha! So yesterday I "blew" a couple of hours listening to and analysing some of the music I mentioned I'd talk about. Turns out, the pieces are full of wonderful details and interesting tricks; many more than I remembered. I want to analyse them deeper to do them justice (I learnt a ton in those 2 hours from film scoring masters).

I think during the weekend I might have time to do it and I'll share the pieces and what I learn from them

Interesting thread and quite moving for me. I learned to read plainsong at an early age and have been working on a project to incorporate it In a modern setting.

Unfortunately, my collaborator who also knew it as a kid and loved it like I, had a stroke a few weeks ago. He was considered well on his way to recovery when he passed away suddenly day before yesterday.

Hearing these clips hit me in the gut and I am sad in a way that the news of his death did not trigger.

Such beautiful music...

That’s terrible, Mike. So sorry to read that.

stubbsonic wrote:Fun tip. I just clicked all these YouTube links and started them all playing at once.

Interesting. But you have to listen to the last one on its own. All of them are keepers, but the last one goes to the place where I wonder how mere humans could make this. Perhaps this is the aim of a lot of music from any age, but this one does it better than the rest.