DP slow ... should I upgrade computer first?

[wonder]

I have 2 2408 interfaces.

I have a 2008 Mac Pro with 24 GB of RAM.

DP has been really sluggish recently. Beachballs. Very slow reacting to every mouse click. Et al.

I'm in a lot of different studios for sessions and these guys have great new interfaces from UA, Antelope, Apollo, etc.

The one thing I love about the 2048 is the DIRECT HARDWARE PLAYTHRU ... but it doesn't have any FX available on it.

My Mac Pro is PRE thunderbolt.

Questions:
Is it worth upgrading to a new(er) Mac Pro for speed?
I'd like to be able to utilize the newer technology of adding FX to headphone mixes without using a ton of outboard gear as Im doing now ... I feel like I'm a little behind the technology curve.
Is it worth upgrading my interfaces? If I do that, I'm sure I'll need to get into at least a Thunderbolt or higher connectivity.

I do quite a bit of full band tracking and as of now, the 2408 (2 of them) provide me with flexibility of many tracks but the drawback of not having internal FX.

Any opinions or suggestions are appreciated.

As for budget ... obviously I'd piecemeal it out but just need to plan the future.

[HCMarkus]

For nominal $$$, you could move to a 5,1 Mac Pro and speed things up significantly while still using your legacy PCIe interfaces. I just picked up a backup 8 core 5,1 for $150 which was immediately upgraded to 12 3.33GHz cores for $90 and a Metal-compatible GPU for another $70 allowing the machine to run Mojave. SATA SSDs are cheap now, so storage expense was fairly nominal, too. This machine is essentially identical to my studio Mac Pro, so I am now in good shape should that Mac fail at any point.

I don't; know how much outboard you need for tracking; for me, a nice reverb is about all that is required.

[magicd]

The difference between Thunderbolt and PCI in terms of latency and CPU-based monitoring is slight. A few ms. The real difference is the basic choice of monitoring through the CPU or through hardware. No matter how powerful the computer, lowering the buffer to have acceptable CPU based monitoring is a big hit.

I use my laptop for live performance. I run a buffer of 32 with a Firewire/USB interface. I run guitar effects and live VIs.

For studio work I run the buffer at 1024 and monitor through the hardware. If the interface doesn't have built-in effects you have two choices if you do want monitored effects. You can use outboard or you can process in the computer.

If all you need for FX is reverb, you can still monitor the direct signal through the hardware. Create an aux track in DP and route the live input through that with a reverb plug-in. You can keep the audio driver buffer high and the latency will be "pre-delay".

Dave

[wonder]

For nominal $$$, you could move to a 5,1 Mac Pro and speed things up significantly while still using your legacy PCIe interfaces. I just picked up a backup 8 core 5,1 for $150 which was immediately upgraded to 12 3.33GHz cores for $90 and a Metal-compatible GPU for another $70 allowing the machine to run Mojave. SATA SSDs are cheap now, so storage expense was fairly nominal, too. This machine is essentially identical to my studio Mac Pro, so I am now in good shape should that Mac fail at any point.

I don't; know how much outboard you need for tracking; for me, a nice reverb is about all that is required.

I did some research and a company is selling maxed out 5,1’s in Denmark.

I think they’re called BIGLITTLEFRANK or something like that.

He sent me some specs

Mac Pro 5.1 (2009-2010)
• 2 x 6 Core 3.06Ghz Intel Xeon
• 48GB 1333Mhz RAM
• 500GB Flash SSD
• 120GB SATA SSD (OS backup)
• AMD Radeon with 3GB memory
(with bootscreen; 4k-ready; Mojave-compatible)
• USB 3 (4 ports)
Price: 2450 USD ex taxes (if applicable), incl shipping
Delivery (USA): 5-6 working days, excluding customs, after received payment.





But that’s $2450 !

[HCMarkus]

Denmark?

Craigslist and eBay and willingness to do a little futzing around inside a computer are what you need. Hot-rodded Mac Pros abound on eBay if you don't want to build one yourself. If you are gonna' spend over $2k, don't look to Denmark, look into a new 6-core Mac Mini.

[wonder]

Denmark?

Craigslist and eBay and willingness to do a little futzing around inside a computer are what you need. Hot-rodded Mac Pros abound on eBay if you don't want to build one yourself. If you are gonna' spend over $2k, don't look to Denmark, look into a new 6-core Mac Mini.

I mentioned them because I was reading an article on this company selling Hot Rodded Mac Pro towers.

Granted ... I'm not gonna pay 2450 to a Danish company when i could piecemeal it myself ... I just need to know WHAT components will get me a pretty dang fast computer

[wonder]

The difference between Thunderbolt and PCI in terms of latency and CPU-based monitoring is slight. A few ms. The real difference is the basic choice of monitoring through the CPU or through hardware. No matter how powerful the computer, lowering the buffer to have acceptable CPU based monitoring is a big hit.

I use my laptop for live performance. I run a buffer of 32 with a Firewire/USB interface. I run guitar effects and live VIs.

For studio work I run the buffer at 1024 and monitor through the hardware. If the interface doesn't have built-in effects you have two choices if you do want monitored effects. You can use outboard or you can process in the computer.

If all you need for FX is reverb, you can still monitor the direct signal through the hardware. Create an aux track in DP and route the live input through that with a reverb plug-in. You can keep the audio driver buffer high and the latency will be "pre-delay".

Dave

Dave, good points.

Rather than get into an entirely new interface, I could just stick with my outboard gear.

I was just noticing that dialing in FX via the new interfaces that have on-board FX is a little less cumbersome than patching and also buying a lot of outboard gear.

My goal is to have AMAZING headphone mixes. That makes a WORLD of difference to studio musicians. In 3 sessions I had last week, 1 mix was good, the other 2 were "meh". It really does impact the players' experience and view of the studio.

Every time I'm in DP and click out of DP to access another app (text edit, CueMix, etc), when I click back into DP, it hangs for a few seconds. I noticed this when I upgraded to DP10.

I'm just wondering if a 5,1 will give me a SIGNIFICANT jump from my current 3,1 (specs below)
Model Name: Mac Pro
Model Identifier: MacPro3,1
Processor Name: Quad-Core Intel Xeon
Processor Speed: 2.8 GHz
Number of Processors: 2
Total Number of Cores: 8
L2 Cache (per Processor): 12 MB
Memory: 24 GB
Bus Speed: 1.6 GHz

[wonder]

For nominal $$$, you could move to a 5,1 Mac Pro and speed things up significantly while still using your legacy PCIe interfaces. I just picked up a backup 8 core 5,1 for $150 which was immediately upgraded to 12 3.33GHz cores for $90 and a Metal-compatible GPU for another $70 allowing the machine to run Mojave. SATA SSDs are cheap now, so storage expense was fairly nominal, too. This machine is essentially identical to my studio Mac Pro, so I am now in good shape should that Mac fail at any point.

I don't; know how much outboard you need for tracking; for me, a nice reverb is about all that is required.

Did you pick all this up on eBay?

[wonder]

I came across this on eBay ... good buy?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-Mac-Pro- ... SwcPFdXBpx

[HCMarkus]

Denmark?

Craigslist and eBay and willingness to do a little futzing around inside a computer are what you need. Hot-rodded Mac Pros abound on eBay if you don't want to build one yourself. If you are gonna' spend over $2k, don't look to Denmark, look into a new 6-core Mac Mini.

I mentioned them because I was reading an article on this company selling Hot Rodded Mac Pro towers.

Granted ... I'm not gonna pay 2450 to a Danish company when i could piecemeal it myself ... I just need to know WHAT components will get me a pretty dang fast computer

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/cm ... on.2099092

Everything you need to know about hot-rodding a Mac Pro can be found at the above link.

***

I have done the CPU swap on four Mac Pros - two single and two dual CPU models - for myself and several others for friends. Once I landed my two dual 5,1s, I sold the single CPU models. Here's my current build recommendation:

A used 8 core 5,1 dual CPU Mac Pro.
Make sure it is a real 5,1, not a 4,1 that has been flashed to 5,1 status. Why? 4,1s require de-lidded CPUs and EFI flashing. True 5,1s require neither. Best deals are usually on Craigslist. I bought a dual 5,1 two years ago for $500. Just got a second one for $150, which was an exceptional price.

Two Xeon X5680 6-core CPUs from eBay. Look for used server pulls. $40-50 each. The fastest Mac Pro compatible CPUs are 5690s. They are 4% faster than 5680s, but cost double.

Arctic Silver thermal paste kit, which includes paste syringe and cleaner solution. $10
https://www.amazon.com/Arctic-Silver-Th ... B002DILLMS

A long-handled 3mm Allen Wrench and some lint-free cloth or wipes. $3.00
https://www.amazon.com/Eklind-54930-Cus ... 193&sr=1-3

***

If you want to make your "new" Mac Pro work with Mojave, you will need a Metal-Compatible GPU. I have successfully used Gigabyte RX 460 GPUs, specifically Radeon RX 460 Windforce OC 4GB GDDR5, even though not officially recommended by Apple. Here is Apple's recommendation:
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208898

Here is an excellent guide to taking a Mac Pro to Mojave:
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/mp ... ad.2142418

[HCMarkus]

I came across this on eBay ... good buy?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-Mac-Pro- ... SwcPFdXBpx

If it works, at current $106 price, yes. But note you will need some parts to make it go.

[wonder]

Denmark?

Craigslist and eBay and willingness to do a little futzing around inside a computer are what you need. Hot-rodded Mac Pros abound on eBay if you don't want to build one yourself. If you are gonna' spend over $2k, don't look to Denmark, look into a new 6-core Mac Mini.

I mentioned them because I was reading an article on this company selling Hot Rodded Mac Pro towers.

Granted ... I'm not gonna pay 2450 to a Danish company when i could piecemeal it myself ... I just need to know WHAT components will get me a pretty dang fast computer

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/cm ... on.2099092

Everything you need to know about hot-rodding a Mac Pro can be found at the above link.

***

I have done the CPU swap on four Mac Pros - two single and two dual CPU models - for myself and several others for friends. Once I landed my two dual 5,1s, I sold the single CPU models. Here's my current build recommendation:

A used 8 core 5,1 dual CPU Mac Pro.
Make sure it is a real 5,1, not a 4,1 that has been flashed to 5,1 status. Why? 4,1s require de-lidded CPUs and EFI flashing. True 5,1s require neither. Best deals are usually on Craigslist. I bought a dual 5,1 two years ago for $500. Just got a second one for $150, which was an exceptional price.

Two Xeon X5680 6-core CPUs from eBay. Look for used server pulls. $40-50 each. The fastest Mac Pro compatible CPUs are 5690s. They are 4% faster than 5680s, but cost double.

Arctic Silver thermal paste kit, which includes paste syringe and cleaner solution. $10
https://www.amazon.com/Arctic-Silver-Th ... B002DILLMS

A long-handled 3mm Allen Wrench and some lint-free cloth or wipes. $3.00
https://www.amazon.com/Eklind-54930-Cus ... 193&sr=1-3

***

If you want to make your "new" Mac Pro work with Mojave, you will need a Metal-Compatible GPU. I have successfully used Gigabyte RX 460 GPUs, specifically Radeon RX 460 Windforce OC 4GB GDDR5, even though not officially recommended by Apple. Here is Apple's recommendation:
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208898

Here is an excellent guide to taking a Mac Pro to Mojave:
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/mp ... ad.2142418

This is so very helpful. Thank you.

[HCMarkus]

[wonder]

I'm finding some 5,1's.

I'm guessing it doesn't matter the processor speed since I'll be upgrading the processor manually?

I'm also finding some 5,1 12 Core 3.33GHz for around $800-1,000

[HCMarkus]

I'm finding some 5,1's.

I'm guessing it doesn't matter the processor speed since I'll be upgrading the processor manually?

Correct.

I'm also finding some 5,1 12 Core 3.33GHz for around $800-1,000

Prices have definitely been dropping, particularly with the 7,1 Mac Pro on the horizon. Also, Mojave is the last macOS that will work on the 5,1 without doing a little hacking (which is already happening with Catalina, but I don't anticipate moving beyond Mojave with my 5,1s). Be mindful that many so-called 5,1s are actually 4,1s (2009 Mac Pros) that have had the EFI updated. 4,1s will work fine, but have likely been in use for at least a year longer. "About My Mac" shows the actual model year of the Mac, regardless of whether its EFI has been updated.