Auto tune guitar

[31flies]

Hey All,

So I'm desperately trying to lay down some properly tuned guitars with my Gibson Les Paul. I use the tuner in DP but it is never quite right, or rather, I never get it right.

I'm not a fan of "faking" it, but is there something in DP 9.51 that will pitch correct my chords? 

Thanks,

[HCMarkus]

DP will do a fine job fixing monophonic tuning. It will shift entire chords sharp or flat. It does not provide a tool that allows you to correct relative tuning of notes within a chord. The only product of which I am aware that can do this is Melodyne.

[bayswater]

Probably better to figure out why you can't get your guitar in tune, than to fix bad tuning after that fact. If you can't tune by ear, best to get some help (maybe getting the intonation set up properly) and practise tuning it. In the short term there are tuning apps that I find better than the tuner in DP. One for the iPhone (and probably other devices) is iStrobosoft. But these won't help if the intonation on your LP is not right.

[HCMarkus]

Probably better to figure out why you can't get your guitar in tune, than to fix bad tuning after that fact. If you can't tune by ear, best to get some help (maybe getting the intonation set up properly) and practise tuning it.

This.

[Sean Kenny]

Could one of a number of problems. Try and analyse where on the neck the guitar goes out for tune.

If it's above the 5th fret it is most likely your intonation
If it's below the fifth fret it could be worn frets or your nut needs attention (a fret filing situation).

It could also be, you're pressing too hard or stretching the string as you fret a chord if your fingers aren't arched enough, high / deep frets can also exacerbate this.

One tip .... tune the guitar for the chords you will be playing, i.e. not necessarily relying on open string tuning.

There's an article on my website describing how to adjust your intonation

https://www.ten21recordingstudios.co.uk ... ation.html

but you'll also find a ton of stuff on the web too.

The previous poster is right .... don't try to fix it after the fact ... that's way too much hassle and will sound pretty lousy

Good luck!

[31flies]

Thanks for the advice everyone. I've only been playing guitar for 45 years, maybe with time I'll learn to tune.

[bayswater]

Thanks for the advice everyone. I've only been playing guitar for 45 years, maybe with time I'll learn to tune.

50 years plus here. One thing to check is whether you've lost some of the ability to hear pitches correctly. There was a thread here on the topic about a year ago. I found that a couple of years ago my pitch perception got confused. When a string was just slightly out of tune, it sounded flat to me when half the time it was actually sharp. I've since learned to compensate and get the tuning right again, but it was pretty confusing at first.

[mikehalloran]

Thanks for the advice everyone. I've only been playing guitar for 45 years, maybe with time I'll learn to tune.

As flip as that sounds, that may be the problem.

If you tune with a single pitch (pipe, fork etc.), your ear, harmonics — especially harmonics — the Buzz Feiten System, Just Intonation, the Tony Rice method (and are not Mr. Rice playing with his bands that tune to him) or any other method designed to "correct" for the inherent imperfections in equal temperament etc...

... then I can assure you that you don't know how to tune for recording, especially when you have to play in tune with others and/or VIs.

A guitar is an equal tempered instrument. For recording, it must be set up so that all 12 notes are equally spaced. You tune to a calibrated electronic tuner and, in most Western countries, the tuner is calibrated so that A=440. Fresh strings ensure that it will play in tune up and down the neck once properly set up.

If a self-contained acoustic band doesn't want to do that, I don't care since I charge by the hour and they'll waste plenty of time getting into their definition of "in tune". Add a keyboard or VIs, that's different because you're making me sound bad. But I still charge by the hour.

[EMRR]

Many many times I’ve seen ‘Gibson Les Paul’ be the root of the problem. I’ve watched friends fight them endlessly, spend plenty on new tuners, neck adjustments and re-frets with no improvement. It’s always that the instrument won’t hold tuning. They usually move on to another guitar, sometimes another LP that will hold tuning. They are a bit infamous for this problem and I’m surprised it’s not mentioned.

I’ve found the Peterson strobe tuner app on my phone to be the best tuner I’ve ever owned. The strobe gives an easy to interpret set of information regarding the pitch swings, averages, and drift tendencies.

I have been meaning to make time trying Melodyne for the reasons mentioned, as I have a lot of tracks recorded by a deceased friend on an instrument that was badly in need of a setup.

Good luck!

[bayswater]

Many many times I’ve seen ‘Gibson Les Paul’ be the root of the problem. I’ve watched friends fight them endlessly, spend plenty on new tuners, neck adjustments and re-frets with no improvement.

Interesting that you brought this up. I was thinking about it, but my own experience was the opposite. I bought a used LP at a local store because when I picked it up to try it out, the tuning was the best I've ever heard, and it held its tuning for hours.

Like you, I've heard others complain but I don't understand why it would be a problem with this model in particular. Building a guitar with proper tuning is a purely technical problem. Get the measurements right, and the tuning will be right. Perhaps the specific material of some guitars is too sensitive to temperature and moisture.

[mikehalloran]

Many many times I’ve seen ‘Gibson Les Paul’ be the root of the problem. I’ve watched friends fight them endlessly, spend plenty on new tuners, neck adjustments and re-frets with no improvement.

Interesting that you brought this up. I was thinking about it, but my own experience was the opposite. I bought a used LP at a local store because when I picked it up to try it out, the tuning was the best I've ever heard, and it held its tuning for hours.

Like you, I've heard others complain but I don't understand why it would be a problem with this model in particular. Building a guitar with proper tuning is a purely technical problem. Get the measurements right, and the tuning will be right. Perhaps the specific material of some guitars is too sensitive to temperature and moisture.

Don’t discount the interaction of the instrument with the player. If the strings are too light and the picking is hard, it will be very hard to keep in tune. A 24 3/4” scale can make this worse (especially with a vintage bridge that does not allow enough compensation for Slinkys) but a 25.5” Strat is not immune. This can be compensated for somewhat by a good tech who pays attention to the way the guitar is played and insists on a correct bridge for the guitar.

Likewise, if the player chords with a heavy hand so that the strings move sideways or press too hard on tall frets so that strings go sharp, no setup will be able to compensate.

When in high school, long before the great time waster that is the internet, I spent a lot of time wondering why my guitars didn’t play in tune. Often, I found that I was the problem. Slinky strings, tall frets, heavy gauge picks... nope, nope, nope... Learning to press straight down when fretting took a long time but was doable and made me a better player eventually.

Perhaps because over half my gigs were on upright bass when I was young, I could never lose the Vulcan Death Grip that was my right hand. My string gauges and fret heights had to take that into account. The positive benefit is that my frets lasted forever (I can prove that a light touch increases fretwear but that’s a different topic).

Oh yea, iStroboSoft from Peterson is the best tuning app. When setting up instruments, it’s nice to display it on my iPad. Since I don’t play anymore, it’s on my phone but rarely gets used.

[bayswater]

If the strings are too light and the picking is hard, it will be very hard to keep in tune. A 24 3/4” scale can make this worse (especially with a vintage bridge that does not allow enough compensation for Slinkys) but a 25.5” Strat is not immune.

Yes, string gauge matters a lot. My LP is best with 11-52s which were on it from the factory according to the Gibson site. That makes it a bit difficult to be Jimmy Page. I tried 9-42s on it, but there was no amount of bridge setting that would get those to work.

[David Polich]

I use Melodyne to tune guitar tracks often.
Not all the time, as guitars are truly never in
tune (physically impossible) but just when
it is absolutely horrendous.

I have some sample-based guitar VI’s that
are way out of tune, so to speak, although
they sound amazing. One is Amplesound’s
TC II Telecaster..the low E string is so out of
tune with the rest of the “strings” that I just
have to re-tune a track recorded with it.
Acousticsample’s Strat is also out of tune
with itself.

I’ve also fixed a number of guitar tracks
in projects sent to me for re-mixes, using Melodyne.
That Melodyne can fix individual notes within a
chord is amazing enough, but what a lot of people
dont know is that you can process a guitar track
(or bass track, or trumpet or piano track) with
Melodyne and then export a MIDI file of that track
from that. Then use the MIDI to “trigger” a better
sounding virtual guitar or bass or whatever. One
example: I got a mix project where the acoustic
guitar, while well-played, sounded horrible, it was
just a piece of crap acoustic that was poorly mic’d.
I processed it with Melodyne, which gave me a MIDI
file of the guitar performance, and used the MIDI
to trigger Amplesound’s virtual Taylor fingered acoustic
guitar. It sounded great and the client thought
it was the real guitar that I had just fixed with
effects.

[Guitar Gaz]

Many many times I’ve seen ‘Gibson Les Paul’ be the root of the problem. I’ve watched friends fight them endlessly, spend plenty on new tuners, neck adjustments and re-frets with no improvement. It’s always that the instrument won’t hold tuning. They usually move on to another guitar, sometimes another LP that will hold tuning. They are a bit infamous for this problem and I’m surprised it’s not mentioned.

This is just not true - so many pros play them (and go back to them after flirting with other brands) because they hold their tuning in a gig setting better than many others.

That said, a Les Paul needs a good stone fret setup when you first buy one and having the nut cut properly. It's worth the extra cost. Change strings fairly regularly and always wipe down and clean strings after playing.

Never have problems with my Les Paul and I was speaking to a top named guitarist after a gig recently and I suggested he sounded better with Les Paul's rather than the Gretsch's he had started using briefly. He said yes, but also that his Les Paul's stayed in tune better.

[EMRR]

Many many times I’ve seen ‘Gibson Les Paul’ be the root of the problem. I’ve watched friends fight them endlessly, spend plenty on new tuners, neck adjustments and re-frets with no improvement. It’s always that the instrument won’t hold tuning. They usually move on to another guitar, sometimes another LP that will hold tuning. They are a bit infamous for this problem and I’m surprised it’s not mentioned.

This is just not true - so many pros play them (and go back to them after flirting with other brands) because they hold their tuning in a gig setting better than many others.

A good one does, there are a lot that aren't good. The Moss Burst was owned by the guitarist in several of my bands, he owned a guitar shop for 3 decades....saw a lot of crappy LP's amidst the good ones. He had his pick of many great guitars to gig with and the LP's were always on the 'too finicky' list. He did have some good 2000's era custom shop examples that were very solid instruments. There's an enormous difference in those versions versus the standard and bottom line versions.