MOTUnation.com

Greetings,

I am wondering what problems to anticipate if I decide to add one or two additional DAWs to my computer. There are some plug-ins that I cannot get to work properly with DP, but might be able to do so with another DAW. Also, the whole clip-launching workflow in Live seems interesting to me, along with some of it's other features. DP has been and will always be numero uno, so whatever I add has to work without screwing up DP's functionality. I mentioned Live, the other is Reaper (I own a license for it for use on a weaker laptop I had before I got the mac on which to load DP).

Any new DAW will obviously have to scan all my existing plug-ins, etc. I fear that doing that will start to break things. Or that I may have to drop plugins into a special folder (Reaper) which will make DP have to scan everything again which could be a giant hassle. I can't be the first person to have tried this, so I figured I'd ask the smart people how they did it.

thanks!

* R with a bunch of *** after it = R ea per . Not sure why the forum software is filtering that, is it a dirty word on some planet?

Hardware setup is a Mac Pro, XEON hexcore 3.3Ghz, 32 GB RAM, can't remember the exact version of OSX but I believe it's the current one.

Is it possible that you are running DP in 32-bit mode and the plugins are needing 64-bit mode? (or vice versa?)

You can try resetting the mode by clicking on the DP application icon and untick or tick the 32-bit mode checkbox to see if that fixes your plugin problems. It might just change which plugs can & can't load.

Lots of people use multiple host programs without issue, and DP shouldn't cause any problems for another app or vice versa. Sometimes a plugin can cause problems, but that could happen with or without using multiple hosts.

I'd say go for it.

Asensory wrote:)
* R with a bunch of *** after it = R ea per . Not sure why the forum software is filtering that, is it a dirty word on some planet?

It was a dirty word here to me as I felt they were engaging in unfair competitive practices, building market share with no real copy protection and pricing that amounted to product dumping. Just my personal beef with them. I decided I would not give them any search engine hits on this forum. Thanks.

I'd be surprised if you can get some plug-ins to work elsewhere that don't work in DP. My experience has been that it's quite rare for a plug-in to not work here, but quite a challenge to get much higher than a 90% hit ratio with Logic (especially) or Studio One.

I've only recently decided to give Cubase a try, due to some advanced features unique to that DAW, and it does seem finally with this version that they have gotten above 80% acceptance of their own proprietary VST3 format. When it freezes though, there's no feedback.

Studio One seems to permanently mark plugs that fail once, even into new revisions, and don't try again. I didn't yet succeed in finding how to override that. iZotope RX once had that problem, but then they hid the plug-in feature so deeply that I can't find it anymore (not using a plug, but validating a plug).

MOTU is an amazing company; no one comes remotely close to them in terms of reliability and also recoverability of problems -- especially with plug-ins and VI's. At least, on a Mac.

I do find it can be useful to have multiple DAW's, if the price is right, just to get a different perspective now and then, as sometimes that helps me to better explore and understand something in DP that I haven't yet given a fair shake or been curious enough about.

I use Studio One primarily as a quarrantine for new plug-ins/VI's and updates, before risking corrupting a DP project and having to waste time loading chunks into a new project as a result.

Logic gets used exclusively for some advanced MIDI editing unique to that DAW, as well as a backup plan for my gazillion Alchemy libraries should the original Camel Audio version of Alchemy ever stop working as an Audio Unit in DP. It was cheap enough to be worth it for those two purposes.

Having failed miserably with interapp project-level file exchange years ago, should this issue come up again in the future as part of a collaboration, I will be happy to import people's projects from their DAW of choice, in my own copies, and then do the proper zeroed and consolidated audio track exports and plug-in collation (via Vienna Ensemble) myself.

To be complete, I suppose I'd need the now-cross-platform Sonar, and some version of Pro Tools that doesn't incur an ongoing cost or a scaling cost for typical track counts.

I deleted my copy of Ableton Live that Korg hands out for free, after trying the full edition. Couldn't wrap my head around its "single audio track" mindset (yes, there's a way around that, but it seems geared towards people who almost exclusively work in MDI rather than those who take a strongly hybrid approach). If anyone sends me an Ableton project, I can probably recover it in a hurry.

For what it's worth I use Logic 10 ProTools 12 and Digital Performer 9 on the same computer and I haven't experienced any issues

mhschmieder wrote:
... I've only recently decided to give Cubase a try, due to some advanced features unique to that DAW,...

[SNIP]

...Logic gets used exclusively for some advanced MIDI editing unique to that DAW, ...

What would those advanced features be, Mark? I'd love to hear about them

James Steele wrote:

Asensory wrote:)
* R with a bunch of *** after it = R ea per . Not sure why the forum software is filtering that, is it a dirty word on some planet?

It was a dirty word here to me as I felt they were engaging in unfair competitive practices, building market share with no real copy protection and pricing that amounted to product dumping. Just my personal beef with them. I decided I would not give them any search engine hits on this forum. Thanks.

Well, you're the boss. I personally wouldn't worry about what another company did or didn't do. To be fair, their program is pretty good and the community of users is extremely helpful. Also, and I think this is a legitimate point, there could be valid questions relating to <nameGoesHere> that DP users can't get to. Anyway, was just curious.

Lots of helpful replies, thanks everyone. Logic could be a choice for me as well. It does have Alchemy, and some other interesting VIs. Ableton's whole approach, clip-based, etc. seems useful and a different way to think. I do want to give it a go without spending a grand on the full version. Or, going the torrent route and pirating a copy ... lots of people do it but I would rather not be "that guy." I would love to get a hold of the original Camel Audio version of Alchemy ... don't think that's possible now that the company was swallowed up by Apple. Maybe they will release an AU version of the plugin to the market (not that I really need more VIs).

As for plug-ins not working, it's not that I find a large amount of plug-ins that don't work. They mostly do work. And yes, the ones that do not are usually 32 bit and not compatible without undergoing some work-around. The issue is with DAW-specific configurations to get them to work. One example is Xfer Cthulhu. It's a chord & arpeggio processor that looks like fun. I struggled with trying to get the MIDI signal out from the plug and into another VI but so far it's not working. Followed directions, forum suggestions, etc. but it just doesn't work. And it's just too much work to GET it to work, while other VIs seem to handle it more easily. This is not a huge deal, just something I wanted to tinker around with, so I just dropped it and moved on.

Asensory wrote:I do want to give it a go without spending a grand on the full version. Or, going the torrent route and pirating a copy ... lots of people do it but I would rather not be "that guy."

You're batting a thousand, Asensory. (What an apt name you chose.) There is a zero tolerance policy for piracy in this forum, and most of us don't even like to hear that someone is considering it. We are mostly pro users - not "tinkerers," for the most part - and we all pay for ALL our software.

It does occur to me, though: are you talking about running two or more DAWs at the same time on the same machine? Just asking The Stupid Question in case we are misreading you. If you're just talking about having multiple DAWs residing on one machine but running them one at a time, there's no problem or conflict.

Gravity Jim wrote:It does occur to me, though: are you talking about running two or more DAWs at the same time on the same machine? Just asking The Stupid Question in case we are misreading you. If you're just talking about having multiple DAWs residing on one machine but running them one at a time, there's no problem or conflict.

Just one at a time. My concern is mostly with the plugins. Some DAWs require you to pug plugs into a special folder. DP seems to know where they are for the most part without me having to tell it . Will I be copying them into different folders? Does it work that way?

BTW, "Asensory" was a track I made many moons ago with an MMT8 and outboard gear, I liked the name so I made that my alias for electronic music stuff. If I were ever good enough or fortunate enough to land work scoring something, I guess I would use my actual name, makes more sense.

mhschmieder wrote:
I've only recently decided to give Cubase a try, due to some advanced features unique to that DAW, and it does seem finally with this version that they have gotten above 80% acceptance of their own proprietary VST3 format. When it freezes though, there's no feedback.

Yes MH! Please fill me in on the more advanced features of Cubase. Thanks

Asensory wrote: Just one at a time. My concern is mostly with the plugins. Some DAWs require you to pug plugs into a special folder. DP seems to know where they are for the most part without me having to tell it . Will I be copying them into different folders? Does it work that way?

On a Mac, your plug-ins are accessed through a master set of Library files called "Components." Any DAW you're using can access these Component files at the system level, so you don't need multiple copies of plug-ins inside multiple DAW-specific folders. I run DP and Logic, and they both have all my plugs available.

labman wrote:On a Mac, your plug-ins are accessed through a master set of Library files called "Components." Any DAW you're using can access these Component files at the system level, so you don't need multiple copies of plug-ins inside multiple DAW-specific folders. I run DP and Logic, and they both have all my plugs available.

That's great news. I was wondering about something like that. I was dragging .DLL files around when using a PC so that is where that question came from.

MH, I would also like to hear about those advanced features.

Asensory wrote:

labman wrote:On a Mac, your plug-ins are accessed through a master set of Library files called "Components." Any DAW you're using can access these Component files at the system level, so you don't need multiple copies of plug-ins inside multiple DAW-specific folders. I run DP and Logic, and they both have all my plugs available.

That's great news. I was wondering about something like that. I was dragging .DLL files around when using a PC so that is where that question came from.

On a Mac, they're here: Library/Audio/Plug-Ins.

Inside the Plug-Ins folder, you'll find Components. This is where AUs are stored. Logic can access these only. DP will default to these on a Mac but that is easily changed in Preferences.

Other folders include MAS, VST and VST3.

DP native plugins are in the MAS folder. It is unlikely that other apps have access to these.

Since DP 8, plugs in the VST folder can be used—these may or may not have different properties than than the AU components. If collaborating with a Windows user in DP, you may wish to use these instead of the AUs.

Neither the Mac nor Win versions of DP can use VST3 plugins.

Where this comes up for some users is with, say, AutoTune. AT can use AUs but they cannot be automated in DP—they can in Logic. The Win version of AT cannot work in DP at all since they have VST3 components but not VSTs.

I run DP and Live, there are no issues with multiple DAWs on the same computer.
Obviously I would tell you Live is the best choice for an ancillary DAW, I can name the reasons.
In general though, Logic, Pro Tools, Cubase, Sonar etc, are pretty much the same as DP, a mostly linear DAW that answers most users needs at least to some degree, that makes them merely a clone of DP.
Bitwig, FL Studio, Renoise, Reason, Live etc. Are a different kind of DAW, more like MPCs than recording studios, so they work in conjunction with instead of replacing DP. You can of course write similar material in any DAW, but the MPC type DAWs are more like playgrounds for experimentation, more so than the traditional DAWs.
Case in point, Lives, time stretching and beat matching is miles above DP, since it started off with DJ's and remixing in mind, and end users kept on demanding better and better algorithms. Conversely the pitch correction in Live is more like a toy, it's not set up like DP, Autotune, or Melodyne at all. There are more points where the overlap is extremely complementary with Live, Live's bussing is super easy and flexible in many ways better than DPs even, but ironically enough DP is better at side chaining plug ins. Live deals with loops better than anything else, except maybe it's kid brother Bitwig, which has the easiest modulation paradigm, no ReWire or AU though in Bitwig.
I don't think you need to get the whole Suite, the main advantage of Suite is Max 4 Live, and that's if you want that sort of thing. Live can be DP's ReWire slave, but it loses Max 4 Live.... so there's that.

I have enough in my itunes account from cashing in pocket change for vouchers to get Logic, and Logic no doubt is an amazing program, but I think at this point it's redundant to go for another DAW that merely duplicates the functionality of DP, I think I'll wait until I have enough to Final Cut Pro X...