MOTUnation.com

As I got no response the osscioscope-filled "9.1 Is Here!!!" thread, I thought I would post this a la carte.

Where is the option to run all current and future plug-ins in real-time instead of pre-gen?

I haven't messed with this since it was introduced years ago, but I thought it was in the audio-plug-ins pane in preferences?

Or is it somewhere else?

I mean to just set this globally, not with each in every plug-in in it's own mini-menu.

I like running everything in real-time, not pre-gem, and it seems to have disappeared?

Thanks!

It appears to be missing. The manual even shows it missing.

9.0 manual screenshot (page 845)



9.1 manual screenshot (page 845)



It appears that you have to turn it off per plugin now.

That kinda sucks!

According to the new features notes, even if you turn it on, if you close the plug-in window, it goes back to pre-gem again?

Does that make any sense?

I've been using it all day, and VIs seem to be doing pre-gem even if I ask it not to. Notes don't show up, pedal-ons with the piano don't record, other weird stuff?

The whole reason I never used pre-gen.

And that is with the VE-Pro plug-in window open and run-in-real-time checked?

Must be a reason.

Hmmm... much to learn.

I was looking for it in the manual. p 842

but it says that pre-rendering is fully automatic. If you want it disabled then you need to record enable a MIDI track that is feeding an instrument, or for audio FX plugins, I think you are supposed to either record enable them or enable monitoring for real time operation. also Aux tracks are always realtime.

Here is the text of the new features from MOTU...

MOTU has worked hard to ensure a high level of compatibility with third party virtual instruments and effects. There may be cases where pre-generation may not work as expected with a given 3rd-party plug-in. These cases should be reported to MOTU and the plug-in vendor so that compatibility can be fully established. In the meantime, you can run the plug-in or instrument in real time.

If you would like a plug-in or virtual instrument to run in real time only while its window is open (to improve level meter timing in the plug-in window for example), go to the minimenu and choose "Run Open Instances of This Plug-in in Real Time". Close the window to return to Pre-gen mode (or uncheck the menu item). This setting applies globally to all instances of that plug-in and is saved globally.

To force a virtual instrument track into real-time operation all the time (not just when its window is open), record-enable any MIDI track that targets the instrument. To force an audio track's effects into real time, the track can either be record-enabled or monitorenabled. Alternately, the effect can be placed on an aux track, either in a chunk or a vrack, with bussing used to access the effect. Aux track effects are always rendered in real-time.

Seems like they want us to use pre-gen as a default.
Record-enabling tracks to defeat the PG would be a bit impractical for session use.
Maybe I don't understand the concept.

del

I want to preface this remark with a plea for someone who understands this stuff to chime in and tell us how things now work, if they do indeed work???

I'd be the first to admit I'm not sure I understand the new systems, but here is my day-one experience.......

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I really don't have a scientific understanding of the pre-gen stuff, but it seemed to hinder MIDI programming when I tried it years ago, so I turned out of globally.

When I installed DP 9.1 yesterday and started back to work on a project I'm ind the middle of (all VI's, no audio yet), it started acting weird right off the bat.

1) Playing and punching-in on a piano part (again remember all VI's through VE Pro), it kept missing the pedal-on. The pedal-on would show up on playback, but would not pedal-on during record).

I had the VE-Pro plugin window open and run-in-real-time checked.

2) Loops in Stylus would not play if you started the transport midway through the loop.

3) Other weirdness I can't remember or was too busy to try to figure out.

4) I have a mastering limiter on my mix bus, and the meters didn't seem to be working on it.

I got around it by opening up the meters window just to confirm I wasn't going over, but I'd rather see it in the plug-in.

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On a whole, I didn't notice if things, as other posts have suggested, are "snappier", which would be great.

But why do they need to break a bunch of stuff that were working perfectly fine in the new version?

Are we going to have to wait for fixes that may never come for stuff that used to work?

If someone understands this and can tell me I have something set wrong, that would be great and a benefit to not only me but the rest of the Motunation members??? Thanks!!!

Just to add to my last post, I looked at the VE-Pro plug-in, and run-in-real-time is checked, but it is also greyed out?

I just tried it again.

Load up a piano VI.

Hit record.

Play a phrase pedaling-on at the start of the phrase and pedal-off at the end.

Hit stop.

Hit record again, and add the next phrase the same way.

The sustain pedal will not do a pedal-on.

It will show up in playback, but not while you are trying to record it.

This is true if you open the VI directly in DP, or open the same VI in VE-Pro.

Please report these issues to MOTU.

Me personally I'd like to see the day when there is no reason to ever need to force a plugin to real time. But obviously this can only happen if wonky things aren't happening. Motu is saying right in the manual that 3rd party plugins might have some problems and please report them so they can figure it out. Ok. I hope they can figure it all out. Wonky behavior is bad enough, but wonky behavior that can't be avoided by forcing real time operation is a deal breaker. I'm sure they will figure it out eventually. Please report your issues to them.

Ideally we shouldn't even have to think about it. When it's playing back a track from MIDI it should pregen. When you are recording it should not pregen because the MIDI is live. When the plugin window is open it should not pregen because we want to interact with its controls. This should all happen totally seamlessly without anyone needing to even think about it or need to force realtime in some odd case. And it should be able to switch seamlessly back and forth from realtime to pregen mode without causing any grief. I think that is their intention, but it sounds like punching in and out may have some non seamless issues. Or there could be 3rd party plugins that are doing odd things.

With regards to the sustain pedal I suspect that you are hitting the sustain pedal just prior to punching in. If the sustain pedal was down on the recorded track just before before the punch in then when you were using real time mode in the past, that already-recorded sustain pedal ON event would happen, you would hit the sustain pedal again just before the punch in, then record would turn on to record more MIDI, the instrument would have already received the sustain pedal ON event and everything would be fine.

Now when dp switches "seamlessly" from pregen mode to realtime mode for the punch in, it should remember that but I think this sounds like Dp is not chasing stuff like that but it needs to. See in pregen mode it's playing an audio track until the moment you punch in. So you hit the sustain pedal right before punch in, when it switches to realtime mode the instrument has not received the sustain ON event, so that's why it's not sustaining, but the next time you play the track back the sustain ON that is on the MIDI track at the point before the punch in will be pregen'd properly.

you could have even wonkier problems by holding sustained notes on the keyboard across the punch in. CC's too. Basically this is a case where MIDI events are not being chased and in some cases it will still sound a bit glitchy during record, even if they were chased.

For punching in and out, therefore, you need to be in realtime mode. Supposedly if the MIDI tracks are record enabled that will be the case, punching in just turns on record for whichever tracks are record enabled.

Please report this to motu

JSmith1234567 wrote:I just tried it again.

Load up a piano VI.

Hit record.

Play a phrase pedaling-on at the start of the phrase and pedal-off at the end.

Hit stop.

Hit record again, and add the next phrase the same way.

The sustain pedal will not do a pedal-on.

It will show up in playback, but not while you are trying to record it.

This is true if you open the VI directly in DP, or open the same VI in VE-Pro.

I haven't had a chance to work with this thoroughly, but this sounds like a bug:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=62125

No...I'm hitting record manually, waiting a second, and then hitting a note and the pedal-on, which since the beginning of time (or at least pianos!) has triggered a sustain.

I will report the bug to MOTU, but it looks like, thanks to the last post, someone else besides me is seeing this same problem with a completely different setup.

FYI, I am seeing this with both a piano VI opened in Kontakt directly opened in DP, and also the same piano VI opened in in Kontakt in VE-Pro with the VE-Pro plug-in opened in DP.

None of this happened in 9.02, or any previous version of DP.

As I said, in previous versions of DP, I had pre-gen turned off and run-in-real-time turned on globally.

Thanks!

Ok, here's some tips that may help.

Regarding the sustain pedal issue -

Go to the "Setup" menu and select "Event Chasing". I set all of these to "off". They are "on" by defualt. That way, you don't run the risk of trying to enable a pedal "on" while DP is still "looking back" at the previous pedal on or off. Disabling event chasing may clear everything up, or it may not. For me it does.. I've been disabling it for years. OR - your sustain pedal itself may be faulty. It could have just
recently developed a short, or the polarity may have gotten reversed.

Regarding setting VE Pro to always run in real-time - you can't, because VE Pro plug-in is not actually a plug-in, it's an access to the VE Pro app via a bridge. You have to set preferences for running in real-time within the GUI of the actual plug-in you are controlling - for example, if you have an instance of Kontakt5 open, you set it in the upper right hand corner drop-down menu of Kontakt's GUI.

Regarding Stylus RMX quitiing "mid-loop" - check to see that in the lower right corner of Stylus' GUI, it is set to "immediate" instead of "next beat". If it is not set to "immediate", then yes the loop will stop playing if you start playback "mid-bar", or if you try to trigger it mid-bar. Also note, Stylus RMX is now really old and has not been updated in ages. I doubt it's been optimized for DP 9.1.

David Polich wrote:Ok, here's some tips that may help.

Regarding the sustain pedal issue -

Go to the "Setup" menu and select "Event Chasing". I set all of these to "off". They are "on" by defualt. That way, you don't run the risk of trying to enable a pedal "on" while DP is still "looking back" at the previous pedal on or off. Disabling event chasing may clear everything up, or it may not. For me it does.. I've been disabling it for years. OR - your sustain pedal itself may be faulty. It could have just
recently developed a short, or the polarity may have gotten reversed.

Regarding setting VE Pro to always run in real-time - you can't, because VE Pro plug-in is not actually a plug-in, it's an access to the VE Pro app via a bridge. You have to set preferences for running in real-time within the GUI of the actual plug-in you are controlling - for example, if you have an instance of Kontakt5 open, you set it in the upper right hand corner drop-down menu of Kontakt's GUI.

Regarding Stylus RMX quitiing "mid-loop" - check to see that in the lower right corner of Stylus' GUI, it is set to "immediate" instead of "next beat". If it is not set to "immediate", then yes the loop will stop playing if you start playback "mid-bar", or if you try to trigger it mid-bar. Also note, Stylus RMX is now really old and has not been updated in ages. I doubt it's been optimized for DP 9.1.

That is why you want to hear from guys like Dave Polich. Besides being a phenomenal player and producer Dave P. is in the REAL WORLD everyday working with top artist like MJ, Fleetwood, Foster, Chick need I say more. From pop to Jazz and everything in between the best go to Dave for sound design and tech. Every major company uses him for sound design. If you own keys or modules by Yamaha, Roland, Korg, D. Smith and a slew of others you are playing sounds made by Dave. You may not know it but I bet they are some of your favorite sounds. Thanks Dave hopefully this will help those who want great gear that sounds great and most of all works with DP.