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Hello -

I am in the process of creating and refining a new orchestral templet using updated/upgraded and new orchestral libraries. (Prior to this new orchestral templet, I've been using variations of an older one for about 7+ years.) The VIs used are from the following orchestral libraries: VSL's Special Edition, East-West's Hollywood Orchestra Complete Bundle, GPO and MusicLab. The DAW used was DP 9 (of course) with VEPro 5 in a two-computer set-up.

This piece is "improvised". In other words, melody, harmony and "orchestration" were done off the top of my head rather than putting "pencil to blank manuscript paper" as I would normally do. It's my first piece using the set-up along with DP 9 and I am still in the process of refining it for future projects.

To be clear, my musical background is mostly in composition with little to no formal training in sound engineering. I think that I am giving up in creating that realistic orchestral sound as a number of members, here, seem capable of doing. Creating such a realistic orchestral sound seems way beyond my capabilities without going back for further formal training of some kind. Rather, I am going for a somewhat close approximation to what an well-recorded orchestra might sound like, balance between the instruments and instrumental sections, clarity, and a certain level of "depth of sound" (front to back).

I am sharing this piece for two reasons: 1) For you general enjoyment (hopefully), and 2) feedback on the mix as a whole. ANY suggestions in creating a better overall sound would be greatly appreciated.

Just click on the "SoundCloud" link.

Thank you. . .

https://soundcloud.com/edward-fiebke/im ... art-song-1

Ted

It's a gentle and pleasant mood.

My ears are used to hearing those kinds of orchestral sounds with more careful arrangements and voice-leading (i.e., how lines flow from chord to chord). So when I hear a simple improvisation, it kind of stops seeming orchestral and starts seeming like a keyboard.

Still, as I said, I found it relaxing.

stubbsonic wrote:It's a gentle and pleasant mood.

My ears are used to hearing those kinds of orchestral sounds with more careful arrangements and voice-leading (i.e., how lines flow from chord to chord). So when I hear a simple improvisation, it kind of stops seeming orchestral and starts seeming like a keyboard.

Still, as I said, I found it relaxing.

Hello -

Thank you for listening and taking the time to comment. Your thoughtful feedback is well taken. The intent of the piece was to help me fine-tune the new orchestral templet in general sound. The choice of melody, chord progression and "orchestration" was aimed towards creating a more relaxing mood. I improvised the arrangement and did not do the usual "pencil to blank manuscript paper". Because of this, this piece does sound more "keyboard-like". Actually writing down the music, which I would normally do, allows me the opportunity to focus on voice-leading and more intricate contrapuntal parts. Hopefully the general sound and instrument placement of the "orchestration" was somewhat balanced and clear.

Cheers!
Ted

The balance & mix sounded nice to me.

I just listened on my laptop. Agreed, pleasant, relaxing vibe created. Thank you for sharing.

I wanted to suggest that you consider using a breath controller, or at least mod wheel, to shape notes in your wind melody, and be sure notes connect, but don't overlap, on monophonic instruments.

HCMarkus wrote:I just listened on my laptop. Agreed, pleasant, relaxing vibe created. Thank you for sharing.

I wanted to suggest that you consider using a breath controller, or at least mod wheel, to shape notes in your wind melody, and be sure notes connect, but don't overlap, on monophonic instruments.

More and more, I've been using the expression pedal, especially for melodic passages. Is there an equivalency between an expression pedal and a breath controller? I currently do not own a breath controller. I used to have a simple one that looked more like a whistle, but lost it years ago. (Certainly I would need to learn how to effectively use it should I invest in one.)

Again, thanks for the thoughtful comments! (They're taken seriously as I tweek the new orchestral templet, and as I learn how to better USE the VIs that reside within it!)

Expression pedal is good, but BC is better, especially for wind instruments, as is allows much quicker changes, and the fact one uses breath to control a wind instrument makes in inherently intuitive and realistic. Aftertouch is great for adding vibrato, especially with modeled instruments.

HCMarkus wrote:Expression pedal is good, but BC is better, especially for wind instruments, as is allows much quicker changes, and the fact one uses breath to control a wind instrument makes in inherently intuitive and realistic. Aftertouch is great for adding vibrato, especially with modeled instruments.

Humph. . .

I went to Sweetwater to research the availability of breath controllers. It seems that one has to be an actual wood-wind player to make good use of them. Unfortunately, I'm not a wood-wind player. Are there real basic, functional breath controllers for non-wood-wind players??

Although my first instrument was clarinet, today I use a simple Yamaha BC3, which works admirably with a standard piano-style keyboard controlling pitch and aftertouch. The BC3 is no longer produced by Yamaha, but there are alternatives, such as:

http://www.tecontrol.se/products/usb-mi ... controller

http://www.tecontrol.se/products/usb-mi ... controller

Very cool! Thank you for the info, HCMarkus!

Here's a few good videos (there are more if you google them) which demonstrate what a breath controller allows to do. Apart from the fact that it leaves both hands free, it also allows very fast transients and nuances which are very difficult to achieve with a modwheel or a pedal.

As a brass player, I was literally thrilled when I first played a melodica, because I had already connected my breath to dynamic phrasing. But most people already have a feel for this from singing, so it isn't something limited to wind players.

On the other hand, breath controllers are exactly cheap. I think a person could get pretty nice results from a pedal, but it would require an intensive time of really exploring it and connecting it. Organists and pedal steel players get amazing results with a pedal. The advantage that expression pedals and breath control have over volume pedals is that you can add filter-cutoff and other qualities to the control destinations.

stubbsonic wrote:As a brass player, I was literally thrilled when I first played a melodica, because I had already connected my breath to dynamic phrasing. But most people already have a feel for this from singing, so it isn't something limited to wind players.

On the other hand, breath controllers are exactly cheap. I think a person could get pretty nice results from a pedal, but it would require an intensive time of really exploring it and connecting it. Organists and pedal steel players get amazing results with a pedal. The advantage that expression pedals and breath control have over volume pedals is that you can add filter-cutoff and other qualities to the control destinations.

Pedals are great for organ and pads but, for winds… let me put it this way: tonguing a foot controller results in less tasty licks.

I use a BC3 (I bought spares while still available and figured how to repair them when they break) on every gig. Current band has two horns, and my BC Brass augments them very nicely. I also use two FC7s (best expression pedal, hands down - that is, if it works with your controller!) and a sustain pedal, resulting in a very fluid control and an amazing range of sounds from a single multi-timbral patch.

I've checked both Sweetwater and BHPhotoVideo for breath controllers. I could not find any like the ones shown in the links that you shared, HCMarkus. Those likes that you shared point to companies in Europe. Haven't had time to see if they're willing to ship to the US.

I'm going to check out the videos that you shared, minimidi. All look to be quite informative!

stubbsonic - I've only recently begun using the expression pedal to help shape sound. Been using the modulation wheel quite extensively for shaping sound. My keyboard controller also has faders and turn-knobs than can be assigned to CCs. Usually don't touch them, though. But if I want to create a more expressive sound from any VI, it seems that I need to become better familiar with all controllers and what they control.

Thank you all for the very thoughtful information that you shared! All information has been very helpful!!

I ordered a breath controller from tecontrol, and they definitely ship to the U.S.

If I had known a version with a bite control was in the works, I would have waited! -- not that I can afford it.

If you are a technically savvy person you might be able to rig something using a combination of a MIDI CPU from Highly Liquid ($50) and a pressure sensitive resistor (like the one used in a BC3). If that seems interesting to you, let me know and I'll send you the resources I have on how to build one. That would be MUCH less expensive, but there'd be some time & probably trial and error to get it to work correctly.

Here's the MIDI CPU:

http://www.midicpu.com