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So, I have an interesting problem...

I have a collection of projects that I recorded back in 2000-2001 on a G3 (OS 9), running whatever version of DP was current back then. The projects were stored on a Linux server running netatalk. I have .tar.gz archives of those netatalk shares (made by tar'ing/gzip'ing those projects on the Linux server).

I don't really have any way to recover these projects--I'm not on a Mac anymore. I'd really like to get all of the audio and MIDI data out of these projects as audio/MIDI files all time-aligned at the beginning of each project--preferably with no effects printed/etc, so that I can work with them in other DAWs.

Does anyone have any advice as to how I might recover these projects? Could I pay someone with an old DP setup to retrieve this data for me? I naively pulled down a demo of DP for Windows and tried to see if I could get anything to open--no such luck. If I could even get these projects updated to work with a modern version of DP (on Windows), I could extract what I need myself.

Let me know if anyone has any advice. Sorry if this is the wrong forum.

Thanks!

Qucifer wrote:I naively pulled down a demo of DP for Windows and tried to see if I could get anything to open--no such luck. If I could even get these projects updated to work with a modern version of DP (on Windows), I could extract what I need myself.

I don't think there's anything naive about doing this. I'm somewhat surprised it doesn't work? I've pulled songs from OS9 and DP 2.7 into DP8 and OSX, so it is possible you're doing something wrong here.
How exactly did you try to open the projects? IMO the best you can hope for is the audio and MIDI to be in tracks in DP, would DP8 on Windows even open the old project file?

Michael Canavan wrote:I don't think there's anything naive about doing this. I'm somewhat surprised it doesn't work? I've pulled songs from OS9 and DP 2.7 into DP8 and OSX, so it is possible you're doing something wrong here.
How exactly did you try to open the projects? IMO the best you can hope for is the audio and MIDI to be in tracks in DP, would DP8 on Windows even open the old project file?

The problem is that the files are the old "split" style, OS 9 files, with the separate forks. Also, you're on a Mac--I'm on Windows. It's possible that OS X knows how to deal with those separate forks, where Windows does not.

If I were on a Mac, I could stick the files back on a netatalk sever and access the Appletalk shares, most likely. I can't do that on Windows.

Qucifer wrote: The problem is that the files are the old "split" style, OS 9 files, with the separate forks. Also, you're on a Mac--I'm on Windows. It's possible that OS X knows how to deal with those separate forks, where Windows does not.

OK you know what's wrong and have it all figured then.

Michael Canavan wrote:OK you know what's wrong and have it all figured then.

I know what I've got. I know what I've tried. What I need is some advice on how to solve the problem, or pointers to folks who I could pay to retrieve the data for me. But opening the files in current DP on Windows did not work, and I do not have a Macintosh.

Qucifer wrote:The problem is that the files are the old "split" style, OS 9 files, with the separate forks. Also, you're on a Mac--I'm on Windows. It's possible that OS X knows how to deal with those separate forks, where Windows does not.

If I were on a Mac, I could stick the files back on a netatalk sever and access the Appletalk shares, most likely. I can't do that on Windows.

That's what I was afraid of. I kind of figured that the Windows version just might not convert non-interleaved SDII files. I mean, if they want real compatibility, it SHOULD. But if you can't get it to work, then they may have left out that support for old format conversions.

Try this, though: Go to the Soundbites Window, select the audio files, and see if you can convert them using the mini-menu in that window. I have to do that even in the Mac version. It doesn't automatically convert them, but then again, that's how I've set up my preferences. I don't like things happening automatically without my saying "do it."

If you can't even get the file to open, try creating a new file and seeing if you can import the chunks, effects, and audio files via the LOAD command. (File/Load) If that works, THEN try the above paragraph.

Shooshie

Shooshie wrote:Try this, though: Go to the Soundbites Window, select the audio files, and see if you can convert them using the mini-menu in that window. I have to do that even in the Mac version. It doesn't automatically convert them, but then again, that's how I've set up my preferences. I don't like things happening automatically without my saying "do it."

I actually had tried that--but because the files are split into data/resource forks, they don't even look like valid audio files to DP on Windows. None of the files appear to be valid files of any kind to anything on Windows.

I'm hoping that there's a path forward other than "find an old OS 9 Mac and an old copy of DP, put the netatalk server together again and then open the files."

Let's try this another way... Assuming I got ahold of an old Mac OS 9 system, and I put the files back on a netatalk server, and could access them from the OS 9 system--is it possible to open these files on a modern version of DP on a Windows system? What are the best practices for copying and moving that data from OS 9 to Windows?

Qucifer wrote:Let's try this another way... Assuming I got ahold of an old Mac OS 9 system, and I put the files back on a netatalk server, and could access them from the OS 9 system--is it possible to open these files on a modern version of DP on a Windows system? What are the best practices for copying and moving that data from OS 9 to Windows?

Frankly, I don't remember when DP began to allow other formats besides SDII. I believe it was probably more recent than OS9. You'd do best to get a Mac for OS X, probably a fairly recent one. I open projects from 1990, 1995, 1999, 2000, 2004, etc. all the time. I have to convert the SDII audio files using the method I described previously, but other than that, they work fine. If you used an old Mac and OS9, and if that version of DP only allowed SDII, you'd be no better off. It has to be able to convert the files.

There are other apps that can convert SDII. I don't know what those would be on Windows, but you might search and find them.

Back to DP, if you had 3rd party plugins, chances are very, very small that their settings will survive the conversion of things to current formats. I've had some that did, but most do not. But after conversion, the audio files and routing worked as they did 15 years ago.

Shooshie

Shooshie wrote:Frankly, I don't remember when DP began to allow other formats besides SDII. I believe it was probably more recent than OS9. You'd do best to get a Mac for OS X, probably a fairly recent one. I open projects from 1990, 1995, 1999, 2000, 2004, etc. all the time. I have to convert the SDII audio files using the method I described previously, but other than that, they work fine.

If you had 3rd party plugins, chances are very, very small that their settings will survive. I've had some that did, but most do not. But after conversion, the audio files and routing worked as they did 15 years ago.

My wife just reminded me that she has an old G4 running OS X 10.4 sitting in the closet. I'm not sure if that will access an appletalk share, but if it can, then I can probably get to the files from that system. And I have a copy of DP6 sitting around--maybe that combination will be able to get the job done? I think that system has a bad cdrom in it, so I may need to work around that.

Honestly--I don't care about the plugins and such. I'll want to remix all of this stuff in a new environment. I just need to get the original media/performances out of the project.

Frankly, I don't remember when DP began to allow other formats besides SDII. I believe it was probably more recent than OS9.

I'm remembering it was 4.something. 4.5 (or was it 4.6?) ran in OS X. iTunes and QuickTime are two programs that can handle the conversion but there are many for Windows.

My wife just reminded me that she has an old G4 running OS X 10.4 sitting in the closet. I'm not sure if that will access an appletalk share, but if it can, then I can probably get to the files from that system.

I have a G4s running 10.4.11 and OS 9.2.2 specifically to convert old files into formats that I can use. You will want to make it a dual boot as there are many times when Classic won't get the job done.

Do a Search for Macintosh Garden on MOTUNation and you'll find a few threads that discuss this. Macintosh Garden has a lot of old apps and Apple software.

Qucifer wrote:

Michael Canavan wrote:OK you know what's wrong and have it all figured then.

I know what I've got. I know what I've tried. What I need is some advice on how to solve the problem, or pointers to folks who I could pay to retrieve the data for me. But opening the files in current DP on Windows did not work, and I do not have a Macintosh.

The part in bold, unless you walk us through the process we have no idea how far you've gotten. For instance when attempting to open an old OS9 DP project did it halt on the SDII files only? or is DP8 Windows incapable of reading the actual DP project file because of the resource fork issue? It sounds like the later, but I'm still not sure?

Can you import the MIDI data from these old projects into DP Windows? If you can do that, then the other part (SDII issues) is totally possible to fix.

There's a free program google found in seconds here:
http://sdtwowav.software.informer.com/1.6/

His website:
http://www.railjonrogut.com

He mentions that you can use a pay software to even keep the resource fork data along with his converter. The pay software a 5 day trial if you're looking to save $ and of course to make sure it does the job.

Michael Canavan wrote:The part in bold, unless you walk us through the process we have no idea how far you've gotten. For instance when attempting to open a old OS9 DP project did it halt on the SDII files only? or is DP8 Windows incapable of reading the actual DP project file because of the resource fork issue? It sound like the later, but I'm still not sure?

The project files are completely unrecognized by DP on Windows.

And honestly, without the project files to time align the audio and MIDI, converting the SDII audio is useless to me. I need to be able to open these projects in some version of DP and export all of the media aligned to the same point in time, such that I can import the media into other workstations.

Qucifer wrote:

Michael Canavan wrote:The part in bold, unless you walk us through the process we have no idea how far you've gotten. For instance when attempting to open a old OS9 DP project did it halt on the SDII files only? or is DP8 Windows incapable of reading the actual DP project file because of the resource fork issue? It sound like the later, but I'm still not sure?

The project files are completely unrecognized by DP on Windows.

And honestly, without the project files to time align the audio and MIDI, converting the SDII audio is useless to me. I need to be able to open these projects in some version of DP and export all of the media aligned to the same point in time, such that I can import the media into other workstations.

Well then your best bet is attempting to instal DP6 and OSX on the old G4, then hopefully converting the files to WAV. I skipped DP6, but DP5 cannot convert whereas DP7 on up can convert files to a the project format on opening, that should be in your DP6 manual though. After that you should be able to save the project in a format that DP8 Windows can read. or export MIDI then audio end to end.

Michael Canavan wrote:

Qucifer wrote:

Michael Canavan wrote:The part in bold, unless you walk us through the process we have no idea how far you've gotten. For instance when attempting to open a old OS9 DP project did it halt on the SDII files only? or is DP8 Windows incapable of reading the actual DP project file because of the resource fork issue? It sound like the later, but I'm still not sure?

The project files are completely unrecognized by DP on Windows.

And honestly, without the project files to time align the audio and MIDI, converting the SDII audio is useless to me. I need to be able to open these projects in some version of DP and export all of the media aligned to the same point in time, such that I can import the media into other workstations.

Well then your best bet is attempting to instal DP6 and OSX on the old G4, then hopefully converting the files to WAV. I skipped DP6, but DP5 cannot convert whereas DP7 on up can convert files to a the project format on opening, that should be in your DP6 manual though. After that you should be able to save the project in a format that DP8 Windows can read. or export MIDI then audio end to end.

What Michael said. It should be DP6 or later, so that you can both open the file and convert the audio to .WAV files. DP8 will probably work, and then you can save it to Windows format.

Note: if the files have been stored on a non-Mac formatted drive (DOS, or MS Fat, for example) you may have lost the headers to the audio files. Best bet is to start with files that have never left the Mac domain, or if they have, they should have left the Mac in compressed archive format. If the headers are lost, there are ways to restore them, but someone else will have to walk you through that. I don't remember the app(s) or method.

Shooshie