MOTUnation.com

Hello everyone, I'm new here.

I'm looking to purchase a new DAW, I'm currently a Logic Pro user but I'm just so bored of it. I know that's probably a terrible reason reason to purchase another DAW, especially seeing as how adept I am with it. I've just been so incredibly uninspired lately and Logic looking so damn boring doesn't help.

I spend about 90% percent of my time in the Piano Roll/ MIDI editor window so I want it to be detailed and easy to use. Before I go hunting down vids and whatnot of the Piano Roll/MIDI editor being used I would like to first confirm if these are or aren't possible, some are pretty much expected but I just want to make sure .

1) Is there some sort of "Chase long notes/sustained notes" setting so that the MIDI notes will still sound even if you start half way through them?

2) Is there a setting so you can move the counter around by just clicking anywhere on the MIDI arrange area, rather than having to either drag the counter or move up and click in the measures area where the top of the counter is?

3) Will the note sound when I:
a) First draw it in with the pencil tool?
b) Click it and drag it around to audition the notes I am moving to?
c) Raise/lower the velocity so I can audition the different velocities?

Also if you would please just watch about 10 seconds of this video to see exactly what I mean by my next questions:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNPUr8h5CZc (sorry I couldn't get imbed to work)

4) Can you switch to a different instrument with some sort of track selector within the MIDI editor? Like in the video they are all on the right and he just clicks them to change to them

5) Can you solo/mute different tracks within the MIDI editor without having to go and do it in the sequencer/arrange page or mixer?

6) When you have different instruments MIDI data showing together; can you give separate volume or modulation curves (in the area at the bottom) to each instrument? Or is it a globle thing and every curve will effect all the instruments which have MIDI data showing in the MIDI arrange area?


7) The listen tool (I believe it is called the "scrub" tool in DP?) can you use it to test the sound of all the instruments together or will it only sound the instrument you currently have selected?

Well...I think that's it ha ha. Thanks for anyone that takes the time to answer. It would be a big help even if you only answered a question or two with a simple yes/no

Sorry if this is the wrong section of the forum to post this.

All the best

Darryl

ansthenia wrote:...I'm just so bored of it. I know that's probably a terrible reason reason to purchase another DAW:

1) Is there some sort of "Chase long notes/sustained notes" setting so that the MIDI notes will still sound even if you start half way through them?

2) Is there a setting so you can move the counter around by just clicking anywhere on the MIDI arrange area, rather than having to either drag the counter or move up and click in the measures area where the top of the counter is?

3) Will the note sound when I:
a) First draw it in with the pencil tool?
b) Click it and drag it around to audition the notes I am moving to?
c) Raise/lower the velocity so I can audition the different velocities?

4) Can you switch to a different instrument with some sort of track selector within the MIDI editor? Like in the video they are all on the right and he just clicks them to change to them

5) Can you solo/mute different tracks within the sequence editor without having to go and do it in the sequencer/arrange page or mixer?

6) When you have different instruments MIDI data showing together; can you give separate volume or modulation curves (in the area at the bottom) to each instrument? Or is it a globle thing and every curve will effect all the instruments which have MIDI data showing in the MIDI arrange area?


7) The listen tool (I believe it is called the "scrub" tool in DP?) can you use it to test the sound of all the instruments together or will it only sound the instrument you currently have selected?

Well...I think that's it ha ha. Thanks for anyone that takes the time to answer. It would be a big help even if you only answered a question or two with a simple yes/no

Sorry if this is the wrong section of the forum to post this.

All the best

Darryl

That's a lot, for sure. I'll start with some general stuff and let others fill in and/or correct any misinformation I might impart as they see fit.

Bordom with an app is, IMO, a very good reason to find something else. One thing I don't get with DP is bored. It is deep and full featured and sometimes just plain, ol' fun to work with.

I'm pretty sure you can "chase" long notes and have them play back. The only issue you might encounter is if it is a sound that modulates over time or has a wave sequence or something like that - you might not be hearing the same sound in context to other notes (as if you started it from the beginning).

The counter (transport) can follow the selection or not if you so desire.

3A & C - I don't think so. 3 B, yes, but once you redraw the velocity or note, the next time you select it it will sound as entered. Not sure about the others as I don't generally draw in notes. THen again, I'd be surprised if it didn't. Maybe someone can jump in here or I can try it in my session tomorrow. The studio is sleeping at the moment.

4: Yes. Changing instruments is from a drop down, as are patches.

5: In the MIDI editor (as well as the audio sequence editor) you can play just what you're seeing or scrub the entire track. You're choice. You select solo mode and only the tracks showing will sound when you "play selection" (opt-space bar). If you add or remove a track from the selector (when you are in solo mode) only the visible tracks will playback when scrubbed. Maybe even with the spacebar playback- again, maybe someone can jump in on that one. Then moving out of solo mode is a mouse click or keystroke away. DP allows for LOTS of custom key commands as well as window sets.

6: You can quickly change the track you are working with (there's a little pencil icon that indicates what track you are editing). Other tracks can stay visible and only the track with the icon indicated will get the controller changes. You can, however, edit durations and velocity individually on any note in the window via the data indicator at the top of the screen and don't need to switch the icon just to change a single note in a track that is not currently getting the edits from the selection. And changes can be made by drawing curves or by several menus to compress, expand, smooth, set, etc. THis can apply to velocity as well as durations and can be altered by percentages as well.

7: This is answered in #5 above, I believe. Again, in solo mode with the MIDI editor or sequence editor (which can have audio, MIDI or both) you can have DP playback just what you have selected to view in the track selector.

What you didn't ask. MOTU offers cross grade (I forget what it's actually called) discounts if you are switching from another DAW. BTW, FWIW, "we" are not MOTU here, BTW, just a bunch of geeks but MOTU does lurk.

If you do switch, I strongly suggest getting a copy of DP 7 as well as DP 8. DP8 is relatively new and still has a few things to work out. It is much like DP7 which is quite solid and all of the functions mentioned above are in both versions.

You will not be bored!

I think raging the note around will sound it's new pitch as you do.Kind of sure it does this when I do, I don't do that often as you can see.

ansthenia wrote:
1) Is there some sort of "Chase long notes/sustained notes" setting so that the MIDI notes will still sound even if you start half way through them?

Yes. It's called Event Chasing.

ansthenia wrote:2) Is there a setting so you can move the counter around by just clicking anywhere on the MIDI arrange area, rather than having to either drag the counter or move up and click in the measures area where the top of the counter is?

Click anywhere with the cursor or click and drag a selection and hit Command-period (Play from Selection Start)

ansthenia wrote:3) Will the note sound when I:
a) First draw it in with the pencil tool?
b) Click it and drag it around to audition the notes I am moving to?
c) Raise/lower the velocity so I can audition the different velocities?

Yes.
Yes.
Yes.

ansthenia wrote:4) Can you switch to a different instrument with some sort of track selector within the MIDI editor? Like in the video they are all on the right and he just clicks them to change to them

Yes.

ansthenia wrote:5) Can you solo/mute different tracks within the MIDI editor without having to go and do it in the sequencer/arrange page or mixer?

Yes.

ansthenia wrote:6) When you have different instruments MIDI data showing together; can you give separate volume or modulation curves (in the area at the bottom) to each instrument? Or is it a globle thing and every curve will effect all the instruments which have MIDI data showing in the MIDI arrange area?

Separate.

ansthenia wrote:7) The listen tool (I believe it is called the "scrub" tool in DP?) can you use it to test the sound of all the instruments together or will it only sound the instrument you currently have selected?

It scrubs whatever's showing.

If you work in the MIDI Edit Window (piano roll), you're going to love DP's tools. Logic has some of those tools (not many, by comparison), but they work much more coarsely than DP's. I could not believe how Logic forced you to work when using the drawing-type edit tools. DP is light-years ahead in that department.

You can get a taste of what is there with one or two of my tutorials in the DP Tips Sheet thread:

Creating and Editing MIDI and Automation Control Points

Working with Selections in DP

Note that these were posted long ago, and the graphics have changed a lot since then. I think the tools still all work the same.

Shooshie

There is ONE caveat in the "playback during editing" features Dan was mentioning. If you have "pre-gen Virtual Instruments" turned on, notes will not sound while editing. Pre-Genning an instrument basically creates a temporary render file (either RAM or on the harddrive, not sure) of the VI output, so that it's not having to expend CPU on the VI itself. It's a nice feature, especially if you're at the limits of your CPU. But the side-effect is that the VI is effectively disabled, it's only used to render pre-gen files behind the scenes. HOWEVER, if you click the record button on the MIDI track you're going to edit, it temporarily disables the pre-generation of the VI it's connected to, because it knows that it's going to need to receive new data and update the pre-gen files.

So, if you're working in pre-gen mode, you'll want to press the record button if you want to get auditory feedback on your MIDI data. Of course, you could just disable pre-gen mode too.

Only reason I go into detail on this is that it confused the hell out of me, and threw me through a loop when I first encountered it. My MIDI notes wouldn't sound during editing, and it drove me crazy.

Thank you for the replies everyone, much appreciated. DP is definitely the highest on my list so far but I want to look at Studio one 2 and Sonar X2 first before I make a purchase.

All the best

Darryl

ansthenia wrote:Thank you for the replies everyone, much appreciated. DP is definitely the highest on my list so far but I want to look at Studio one 2 and Sonar X2 first before I make a purchase.

All the best

Darryl

Can't wait to get my commission. Kids to feed and all that.

Look at them all. Buy more than one. It's good to have multiple DAWs. Gives you perspective. Without anything to compare to, you have no perspective, and that's not a good thing, no matter how good your DAW is. I mean, if you've got a great DAW, how would you even KNOW that without some perspective. So by all means, get a big heaping plate of Perspective! (to borrow from Peter O'Toole's character on Ratatouille)

But sooner or later, you'll try DP, and if you try it long enough to figure out some of the great workflow techniques it offers, then you'll not want to give it up. That, I promise. But it takes perspective to know WHY.

Shoosh

I like the way you think, Shoosh. I can't decide on a Nissan or a Honda or a Lotus. I'll buy all three! Seriously, trying them is certainly advisable, either at a friend's studio or a store or even checking out some YouTubes, but buying them? No for this kid. FWIW, I have tried Logic, and PT, and even a little Cubase on my brother-in-laws machine, but the only DAW I have is DP and I don't feel I'm missing much.

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:I like the way you think, Shoosh. I can't decide on a Nissan or a Honda or a Lotus. I'll buy all three! Seriously, trying them is certainly advisable, either at a friend's studio or a store or even checking out some YouTubes, but buying them? No for this kid. FWIW, I have tried Logic, and PT, and even a little Cubase on my brother-in-laws machine, but the only DAW I have is DP and I don't feel I'm missing much.

When it comes to cars, I do my homework first. Then I just go get the car I want. Minimal fuss and muss. In fact, I just got one today. Once I applied all my exact needs, only one car came close, and even it's not perfect. But close. But I did try a lot of cars. When I was commuting to Las Vegas, Phoenix, and Hollywood, my clients always provided me with a rented car or one of theirs. I'd have each car for a month or so, and I did that for years and years. It taught me so much about what to expect from each manufacturer, and you might say my philosophy is the same with cars as with DAWs. I have Toyota, Suzuki, Nissan, Chrysler, and Buick, and have had other Nissans, in addition to Oldsmobile, Ford and Chevy (back in high school and early college). Have driven extensively a number of Lexus, Infiniti, Mercedes, and BMW. Wouldn't have any but the Lexus of that group. You really learn a lot about cars from driving different makes and models. Perspective. Works the same with DAWs. But it's a lot easier to rent a car for a couple of months than to rent a DAW! (You'll spend less money on the DAW, though, so why not?)

The one place where my philosophy eludes me is houses. I'd love to try out various houses in all 50 states. Can't afford them all, though. Maybe after my next big DP project...

Shoosh

Shooshie wrote:

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:I like the way you think, Shoosh. I can't decide on a Nissan or a Honda or a Lotus. I'll buy all three! Seriously, trying them is certainly advisable, either at a friend's studio or a store or even checking out some YouTubes, but buying them? No for this kid. FWIW, I have tried Logic, and PT, and even a little Cubase on my brother-in-laws machine, but the only DAW I have is DP and I don't feel I'm missing much.

When it comes to cars, I do my homework first. Then I just go get the car I want. Minimal fuss and muss. In fact, I just got one today. Once I applied all my exact needs, only one car came close, and even it's not perfect. But close. But I did try a lot of cars. When I was commuting to Las Vegas, Phoenix, and Hollywood, my clients always provided me with a rented car or one of theirs. I'd have each car for a month or so, and I did that for years and years. It taught me so much about what to expect from each manufacturer, and you might say my philosophy is the same with cars as with DAWs. I have Toyota, Suzuki, Nissan, Chrysler, and Buick, and have had other Nissans, in addition to Oldsmobile, Ford and Chevy (back in high school and early college). Have driven extensively a number of Lexus, Infiniti, Mercedes, and BMW. Wouldn't have any but the Lexus of that group. You really learn a lot about cars from driving different makes and models. Perspective. Works the same with DAWs. But it's a lot easier to rent a car for a couple of months than to rent a DAW! (You'll spend less money on the DAW, though, so why not?)

The one place where my philosophy eludes me is houses. I'd love to try out various houses in all 50 states. Can't afford them all, though. Maybe after my next big DP project...

Shoosh

and women...?

Dan Worley wrote:

and women...?

1) Don't buy
2) Definitely road test

Apologies Shooshie (et al) I couldn't help it. Such a great set up.
What was the topic again?

Cheers, Bolla.