MOTUnation.com

I can't find anything in the user manual or online about this.

I'm trying to send 4 stereo channels of audio from Program X (Traktor) to Program Y (Ableton) using the 828 as an internal mixer.

Using Soundflower,
I can output Program X to Soundflower, and route the audio internally to Program Y. But there are major clock issues, and digital distortion fades into and out of all lines every 10 minutes or so. I'm wary of a multi-bus "software" router like this in the first place, and SoundFlower confirms my doubts. (Many other users have commented on the same problem)

Is it possible to use the 828 mk3 for this? So far as I can tell, I would need to route to the 828's outputs, then use a bunch of patch cables to physically go back to the inputs. I've searched and searched, but it doesn't appear that I can route the outputs back into the inputs IN the box. What gives?! Seems like a major oversight of CueMix?

Any help?

Thanks.

You could probably loop back an ADAT bank. Output Traktor to ADAT A 1-4 - then Live input ADAT A 1-4. Just be careful of feedback loop in either individual program when assigning I/O.

If you don't use spdif and aes, you could use these for loop back and switch adat off to preserve Cuemix CPU...


Klaus

Brilliant, dude! I had disabled my ADAT's (had no need!) and never even saw them in my input/output options. I'll fiddle w/ and report.

BTW, I don't use the MOTU FX, so I'm guessing the MOTU CPU should be able to handle the ADAT routing (I would imagine it should take place w/o much of any CPU handling, no?)

----
Now my originating program (Traktor) won't play. May need to send clock to the MOTU or program the MOTU to receive ext. clock? Hm.

***FIXED: my MOTU needs to be connected via Firewire to use ADAT. I usually use firewire, but was connected via USB just now...

townsend2005 wrote:there are major clock issues, and digital distortion fades into and out of all lines every 10 minutes or so. I'm wary of a multi-bus "software" router like this in the first place, and SoundFlower confirms my doubts.

I've had the same timing problem from time to time with SoundFlower. I recently tried JackOS to connect DP to MixBus and did not get the timing errors. AUNetSend and receive might work for you too.

townsend2005 wrote:Now my originating program (Traktor) won't play. May need to send clock to the MOTU or program the MOTU to receive ext. clock?

Is it a transport issue or an audio issue? If transport you need to look at IAC in Audio MIDI Setup. If your not hearing the audio via the 828 (and you want to), then you need to bring the faders up in CueMix FX on the ADAT input channels of your main mix pair. Or, you could use input monitoring in Live (maybe easier). You shouldn't need to look at any clocking. Again, with loopback always beware of feedback loops.

bayswater wrote:AUNetSend and receive might work for you too.

Does AUNetSend work locally? I've never tried it.

NazRat wrote:Does AUNetSend work locally? I've never tried it.

I assume it does because .local is a network location in OS X.

I got my audio to pass (needed to be on FW, not USB).

But I'm still having trouble. In CueMix, I don't see any signal going into the ADAT inputs. Traktor is putting out audio fine, so far as I can tell. I tried making Busses made of ADAT inputs and routing them to ADAT outputs, but no go.

Was the original suggestion to use a physical cable? This should be able to happen in the box, right?

(I still wonder why it's not possible for the analog inputs)

I also see SoundFlower as a "Clock Source" in MOTU Audio Setup. This is interesting, maybe I'll give that a try. Perhaps Ableton and Traktor will use SoundFlower as a clock source automatically? (I don't even recall if there are options for setting that).

And I'll give Jack OSX a try if this all doesn't work. But I'm really wary of the software routing, now...

Maybe there's some confusion about Cuemix. It routes audio around the mixer internal to the MOTU hardware unit it addresses, simulating the controls on a hardware digital mixer. It's best thought of as a software that controls hardware (the mixer in a MOTU interface) that resides outside of your Mac.

The link between the MOTU interface and the applications on the Mac are handled by Core Audio and things like the Bundles window in DP, not Cuemix. All of this works without Cuemix running. And additionally, as far as I know, Cuemix has no idea what is going on in your audio applications, and it works the same way whether or not you even have an audio application running.

You can assign an output channel in an application to a MOTU hardware output, assign and input channel in another application to a MOTU hardware input, and physically connect the MOTU output to the MOTU input, but none of that needs Cuemix.

In some MOTU devices there are facilities in MOTU Audio Setup (not Cuemix) to route some outputs back to virtual inputs. For example, in the 828 Mk 3, you can select any pair of outputs and have them route back to a virtual pair called Stereo Return which you can then use as an input source in an application.

townsend2005 wrote: Was the original suggestion to use a physical cable? This should be able to happen in the box, right?

Yes, physical cable connected from ADAT A out to ADAT A in (or B to B if you want to use the B bank). First, get rid of any CueMix mix bus routing you tried for the ADAT outputs. Make sure optical A (or B) is configured as ADAT, not TOSLINK or Off in MOTU Audio Setup. USB or firewire shouldn't have made any difference, not sure what's up with that. Set the output of mix bus 1 to your mains and bring up the faders on ADAT A 1-4 (or B). If you set the output of Traktor to ADAT 1-4, you should hear Traktor in the mains. In Live you should be seeing signal if you select those ADAT inputs.

I could be thinking wrong here, but I've done loopback with analog and this shouldn't be any different. Maybe someone can spot something I've overlooked. There are old threads here discussing loopback.

That's my understanding of CueMix as well - just a software GUI for the internals of the 828. Sorry if I glossed the capacities of CueMix instead of the 828..

But when I pull up CueMix to monitor the inputs, using the metering page, which shows every single input and output, I'm not showing any digital signal whatsoever. So I think I have a problem between my source program (Traktor) and the 828. I also thought the 828 could do internal re-routing between outputs and inputs, but using an optical cable isn't so bad.

I just tried using Ableton to output to the ADAT outputs, and similar issue. Ableton looks happy, says it is sending successfully to ADAT (green meters, not purple). I wonder if the ADAT output needs to confirm a destination before the CueMix monitor will register signal passing?

On the front panel, the only indication of ADAT status is under the clock section, so maybe successful clock sync IS a prerequisite for any signal whatsoever?

(anybody remember if an ADAT cable is included in the packaging? Before I sift through boxes of archived cables....)

There is no ADAT cable in the package.

My how the time passes.

Thanks for everyone's help on this. Finally got around to doing this, after many months.

So, I did successfully get a loopback from ADAT A output into ADAT B input, using an external cable. The external cable is necessary, to keep all the channels discreet (rather than funneling into a single, virtual stereo return).

The MOTU was a little wonky with Ableton Live, I had to switch the sample rate, to "wake up" the ADAT outputs, but everything worked as expected after that.

It looks like the ADAT cable has to be connected on both ends, to successfully handshake a link, before Cuemix FX will give you an ADAT meter output. So for anybody experimenting, keep that in mind. (Maybe everybody knows that, already. Not sure if that is a digital standard. It makes sense that the unit can't send audio if there is not a successful link established.)

As you guys said, there is no need to set a master clock somewhere. The software seems to communicate directly with the 828 (driver?) so that if I change the clock rate in MOTU Audio Set Up, the software registers the change. And vise-versa if I change the clock rate in my software, the MOTU Audio Set Up and the 828 itself register the change.

I am still having trouble getting Traktor to send to the ADAT outputs, so it looks like an application-specific issue.

Had to revive this long dead thread.. Could you give me an idea of how this can be done if all I actually want is the single virtual stereo return you mentioned? I just want to be able to route the Mac's internal audio out to a set of analog sends. Mine's a Traveler Mk 3 but I think Audio Setup and CueMix are identical on it..