MOTUnation.com

Hello, everyone.

My G5 can't keep up with my projects anymore, even with the help of 3 slaves.

SO, I need a new computer, and I can't wait for the next generation of MacPros.
Buying used is not an option either (due to trust and tax deduction issues).
The new iMac wouldn't work for me because I have 2 beautiful 23' monitors that I'd use with the computer.

So it looks like my options are pretty much reduced to the new MacMini, which is starting to look more and more like the answer for me... Great price for great performance.

BUT I do have a few concerns about it (I'd go with the Server model 2.6GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i7 with 2 HDs and 16 GB RAM (with the 2.6 GHz upgrade).

1.- When I have everything set up, will the performance comparison between the G5 and MM be, in your estimation:
a) Meh! Just fine
b) Quite good
c) it will blow me away

2.- I need to find a way to connect my 2 23' monitors to the MM. The ones I have are the old Apple ones. Their video connector is ADC.
Both monitors already have a DVI to ADC Adapter (so I could use them with the G5). They are those big chunky expensive ones.
I see the MM needs a Mini Display connector, and Apple sells a Mini DisplayPort to DVI Adapter...
But my question is, will the monitors still work fine if they go through 2 stages of adaptors (ADC to DVI to MiniDisplay)????

3.- There's also an issue with the HDs... Apple's purchase site does not give me an option to order it with 2 internal 7200 RPM HDs. I'm surprised, because that's what I got for my current MM. The fact that the option does not come up there, does it mean it's "on purpose", e.g. I can't put them there myself because of heat issues or something?
I'd DEFINITELY need 2 fast internal disks, but I do not want to spend on a Solid State one yet (no money for that, and I'd be doing lots of read/write because it would be my main Audio HD).



4.- I'm perfectly happy with my current audio interface (MOTU's PCI 424 with 2408 MkIII), but because of the MM's connections, I'll have to get a new one. It must have either, Thunderbolt, FW800 or USB 3.
Can you recommend one, please? My requirements are:
- It must have 8 digital Ins and 8 digital outs in TDIF or ADAT form, so I can connect it to my Tascam DM-24 mixer.
- Unless the mic preamps are MUCH better than my Tascam's I don't care about analog inputs or analog outputs at all. My microphones are connected to the Tascam, so I want to send this digitally to this interface.
- SPDIF and one MIDI port would be nice too

That's basically it.

Now, so far, it looks like MOTU's Track 16 fits the bill quite nicely. But I'm concerned it has a FW400 connector and this MM uses a FW800 one. Are there converters for this?
Also, will MOTU release an interface with thunderbolt connections soon? Or should I get a FW to TB convertor. Is there even such a thing?

Thanks for any comments in advance.

But my question is, will the monitors still work fine if they go through 2 stages of adaptors (ADC to DVI to MiniDisplay)????

It looks like this:


It's not even in this list:
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3235

So, with that in mind...

The answer is Maybe. In theory, it will work. I've done it. Also suffered the frustration of seeing it not work, shutting down the whole system them, on re-boot, suddenly it came to life.

The thing is that, for less than $175 each, you can get another pair of monitors that are brighter, bigger and use a lot less energy (less heat) than the adapters, let alone what those monitors add to the equation. I have had moth the monitors and those adapters.

You can get about $150 each for the adapters without the monitors last time I checked.

I don't have a lot to suggest, but I'm interested in what you decide to do. Multiple Minis seem like a good way to go.

I've also been thinking that with USB 3 being pretty common, it might be worthwhile to look for a 8 or 16 channel ADAT box with a USB 3 connector to the computer. Then I can connect my existing audio interfaces via ADAT to that, take advantage of USB 3, and leave FW for external drives. In your case, it would get your Tascam into whatever Mac you choose as long as it has USB 3. I doubt you will find much with TDIF any more.

On the FW cable, there should be no problem. I have a number of cables with the 800 connector on one end and the 400 on the other, and never had any issues.

> I'll have to get a new one.<

Yes

>It must have either, Thunderbolt, FW800 or USB 3<

No, it doesn't. The MOTU usb2 interfaces are fine and work with usb3 ports. The FW400 interfaces are plenty fast going into FW800.

A simple FW400-800 adapter or cable also works well. My 828mkII-FW is running fine with a $14 adapter on the end of a FW400 cable - works equally well with the cable.

> it might be worthwhile to look for a 8 or 16 channel ADAT box with a USB 3 connector to the computer.<

Does anybody make one?

Don't know. I've started looking and have to assume that the ADAT to USB 2 boxes will be replaced with USB 3 versions. Behringer seems to have discontinued theirs, although it was quite popular and seemed to work well.

> I've started looking and have to assume that the ADAT to USB 2 boxes will be replaced with USB 3 versions<

No reason for it. An 828mkIII can get 22 channels of audio down usb2 or FW400. As they are compatible with the faster ports, there is nothing to be gained by limiting the interface.

We'll never see FW800 only devices since usb3 and TB have greater bandwidth. Expect those devices to have much greater functionality when they hit the market - no one has even announced them yet.

>Apple's purchase site does not give me an option to order it with 2 internal 7200 RPM HDs<

Heat is the issue.

>I'm perfectly happy with my current audio interface (MOTU's PCI 424 with 2408 MkIII)<

The 828mkIII Hybrid has all of the functionality plus. The Traveller mk3 should also get the job done. These assume you don't need the TASCAM digital interface - if you do, then you can hook up your 2408 stand-alone through the ADAT optical to either unit (both have two ADAT-8 banks).

mikehalloran wrote:No reason for it. An 828mkIII can get 22 channels of audio down usb2 or FW400. As they are compatible with the faster ports, there is nothing to be gained by limiting the interface.

I guess the same argument could be made for TB. Yet, they are starting to be made.

mikehalloran wrote:We'll never see FW800 only devices since usb3 and TB have greater bandwidth.

? Don't understand. Are you saying there are no FW800 only devices?

>? Don't understand. Are you saying there are no FW800 only devices?<

The UA is't exactly new. Besides the FW800 connectors - no functionality you can't also find from MOTU or Apogee. Its biggest feature is that you can get a TB card for it. Racing stripes on an Accord does not make it an NSX.

usb3 is much faster and TB is faster even still. Since Apple is dropping FW, why would anybody make a new interface that would be F800 only? It makes no sense. None have been announced.

The Track16 is a good case in point. since it performs fine over FW400/800, no reason to limit it to F800 only. FW800 was DOA as a standard - only external hard drives ever took advantage of it - and eSATA is three times faster for that.

>I guess the same argument could be made for TB. Yet, they are starting to be made.<

Oh really? The only one I know is the new AVID units for ProTools - $5,000 and $7,000 depending on features and ship dates haven't been announced last I checked.

The Universal Audio is only a $500 TB card for their current FW interface - it is not a new TB interface. But, at $2,500 it is the only TB interface that I know is shipping. Since it is a graft onto an older product, there is no functionality not present in the FW version.

There are rumors of a TB Apogee Quartet but, Apogee announced that was a false rumor and even put out a press release explaining why usb2 is more than adequate.

I am not going out on a limb when I predict that, once MOTU announces TB peripherals, they will have much greater functionality than their current offerings. Will they have 10x the capacity - oh probably not but why offer anything if you can't take advantage of the huge increase in band width?

I stand by my earlier comments. No one needs TB, FW800 or usb3 audio interfaces. There are none on the market that take advantage of the potential and offer anything not found in usb2/FW400. Next year, maybe - I certainly hope by 2014.

" An 828mkIII can get 22 channels of audio down usb2 "

So perhaps a reason to develop something that can bring 24 channels in from something like FM's Tascam mixer.

E.g. http://www.rme-audio.de/forum/viewtopic.php?id=11741

Is there an argument that a faster link would have lower latency?

Thank you for your comments, guys

I really appreciate your responses because you made me notice a few things. And I must say I'm a bit disappointed... I can see two potential deal-breakers already, so before I get too excited about all this, what about:



I don't want to spend $600 on two stupid SS HDs. Not only because there's no budget for it, but one will be my DP HD, so there will be constant write operations, and, as I understand, they are less than adequate for this kind of thing (as opposed to reading samples only).

It looks like I can't even have one 7200 RPM HD in there, let alone two, because of the heat issues Mike mentioned... So would I have to settle for the two 5400 RMP ones?
How badly would performance suffer from that?

Any educated guesses as on how many stereo tracks (24/44.1) I could read from one of those slow disks before the computer starts getting stupid?

And what about the System? Would it be too slow running from that HD?

The FW800 connection would have to be for the third disk, the Samples HD, and the interface would have to be connected to USB, which, according to your comments, seems perfectly fine.

Damn! And the other thing, I'm not crazy about the display converters either...

For my current MM I bought 2 VGA to USB display converters, so I could use my 2 17' SyncMaster monitors. Overall they work fine, except that 50% of the time the monitors get exchanged (left appears in right and vice versa). It annoys me mildly, but a quick visit to the System Preferences fixes this.
The other one is that, after waking from sleep, one of the monitors appears all distorted, like what pink-noise is to audio, this is to the video... The fix is to invoke the screen saver and leave it 10-15 seconds, and then it shows the normal screen looking perfect.
They were quite cheap, so the balance between my annoyance versus the price seem balanced.

I could live with that if I can find a DVI to USB or ADC to USB converter (or, more precisely, DVI to Mini DisplayPort to USB), especially if they are cheaper than the one Mike linked to (otherwise I'd be forced to get that one).


I don't know... What do you think about all that, guys?

mikehalloran wrote: It looks like this:


It's not even in this list:
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3235

<...>

The thing is that, for less than $175 each, you can get another pair of monitors that are brighter, bigger and use a lot less energy (less heat) than the adapters, let alone what those monitors add to the equation. I have had moth the monitors and those adapters.

You can get about $150 each for the adapters without the monitors last time I checked.

But I think those are the ones I already have (they have USB and convert from ADC to DVI). I'm confused... Are those like mine or I would have to ADD those to my current converters?

Perhaps setting up the two drives as a raid would get around the speed problem for the system drive. For things other than applications and system, wouldn't you be better off using USB 3 or TB drives?

Have you considered purchasing a used MacPro from eBay? I know they're not brand new. But there are plenty of Early 2009, 8-Core computers, that can be purchased for a little more than a brand new Mac Mini. I must say that these new Mac Minis appear quite impressive. But as you know they don't have the wonderful expandability of the Mac Pro. I'm seeing Early 2009, 2.26 8 core Mac Pros going for around $1700.00. Just a thought. . .

Good luck with your research and your decision.