Confused about 64 bit mac and DP8

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Funny thing, Dan. Since I got the 8 core I haven't had those bottlenecks I had with the G5, so I may not see that much of a difference in that regard. I am hoping to see a difference in other areas and really looking forward to checking out how video is going to be implemented now.

[dix]

Once again I'm confused.

Thanks Dix. If you will, please try the same booted to 32-bit kernel when DP8 shows up. I'm going to do the same. I have a MacPo 1.1, so I can't technically boot to 64-bit. If I'm able to access more than 4GB of RAM with DP8 on my machine I will be thrilled (I'll be trilled just to have DP8 anyway). I'll know almost immediately if there is a change in CPU load and performance. Most of my active projects are right on the verge of breaking.

Thanks!

Sorry. I should have mentioned I am in a 32bit kernel. That's the only option I have on this Mac too. …i'll try it with dp8 when it comes, but i think we can think about being thrilled now. i can't imagine why one 64bit app could access more than 4gb and another could not.

[Dan Worley]

Funny thing, Dan. Since I got the 8 core I haven't had those bottlenecks I had with the G5, so I may not see that much of a difference in that regard. I am hoping to see a difference in other areas and really looking forward to checking out how video is going to be implemented now.

Yeah, I hear you, Mike. I'm so excited about the new features and plug-ins that the performance increase is kind of secondary to me, too. Wish I had an 8-core, but as long as performance isn't worse I'll be happy happy happy! You're going to have it so easy you should offer a discount.

Thanks!

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Discount? After I pay for all the crap I bought to make a loving in the first place, maybe then I'll offer a discount. LOL! Composing and editing is pretty easy as is. Having the "extras" will just make it more fun, which means more distractions, which means longer on each project, which means I have to charge more just to stay attentive to client/collaborator/producer needs.

[FutureLegends]

People, please.
A memory server is nothing but another app running in 64bit. If they can access more than 4gb of ram any other app can to it too.

The kernel takes care of things like hardware drivers and memory handling.
So when you start having up towards 100gb of ram a 32bit kernel will itself start to run out of the 4gb it can use

If you have a computer that can start in 64bit kernel and you have no hardware that lack 64bit drivers, you should probably do it as there's probably some benefits.

But to sum it up: YOU CAN RUN 64bit APPS IN 32bit KERNEL AND STILL ACCESS MORE THAN 4GB OF RAM!

[MIDI Life Crisis]

From the horses mouth, which is a welcome change!

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4287

[kgdrum]

giddy up!

[Dan Worley]

People, please.
A memory server is nothing but another app running in 64bit. If they can access more than 4gb of ram any other app can to it too.

The kernel takes care of things like hardware drivers and memory handling.
So when you start having up towards 100gb of ram a 32bit kernel will itself start to run out of the 4gb it can use

If you have a computer that can start in 64bit kernel and you have no hardware that lack 64bit drivers, you should probably do it as there's probably some benefits.

But to sum it up: YOU CAN RUN 64bit APPS IN 32bit KERNEL AND STILL ACCESS MORE THAN 4GB OF RAM!

Thanks. I believe you're right. Obviously we weren't born knowing this crap. I hang my head in shame.

[FutureLegends]

Again, I loaded up MachFive 3 running in 32bit kernel on my Mac Pro 1,1 and here's the memory use:

[FutureLegends]

And for those of you that seem to think VEP, Bidule, Kontakt etc use some magical "memory server" that allows it to use its own rules, here's Photoshop using 5.1gb or ram, again on a Mac Pro booting in 32bit kernel. I didn't have large enough photo files so this is with the maximum allowed open docs in Photoshop

[Shooshie]

Thank you, FL, and there's the proof, folks. Running your Mac Pro with a 32 bit kernel ABSOLUTELY does not prevent it from utilizing full 64 bit privileges in 64 bit apps.

Stated more positively, even when running 32 bit kernel (on a 64 bit CPU), your 64 bit apps will be able to take full advantage of the practically unlimited RAM that becomes possible in 64 bit memory addressing.

Shooshie

[BobK]

Thank you, FL, and there's the proof, folks. Running your Mac Pro with a 32 bit kernel ABSOLUTELY does not prevent it from utilizing full 64 bit privileges in 64 bit apps.

Stated more positively, even when running 32 bit kernel (on a 64 bit CPU), your 64 bit apps will be able to take full advantage of the practically unlimited RAM that becomes possible in 64 bit memory addressing.

[I posted this in Shooshie's other thread, and I think it's worth repeating here.]

This Macworld article is still relevant, though it was originally written re: Snow Leopard.

http://www.macworld.com/article/1142379 ... 4_bit.html

The pull quotes (emphasis added):

Snow Leopard runs 64-bit-capable applications in 64-bit mode regardless of whether it’s booting into a 64-bit or 32-bit kernel. In fact, the only big advantage of booting into a 64-bit kernel would be the ability to use more than 32 gigabytes of RAM. There aren't any Macs that can do that now, anyway, due to hardware limitations.

Applications running in Snow Leopard will have access to a full 16 exabyte virtual address space, just the same as if they were running in a 64-bit kernel. As a result, there’s very little difference between booting into the 64-bit kernel and the 32-bit kernel in current Mac systems. (This is not to say that there won't be a bigger difference in the future, as RAM sizes continue to grow. But presumably new high-end Mac systems will boot into the 64-bit kernel when the need arises.)

So, bottom line: If you’ve got a Core 2 Duo or Xeon based Mac — any Intel Mac not running a Core Duo or Core Solo processor — you’ll be able to run applications in 64-bit mode, which will in turn be able to take advantage of faster 64-bit registers and math routines as well as access massive amounts of memory.

Apparently the benefits include not just access to more RAM, but to more virtual memory too.

What's so confusing is that I've seen the term 64-bit applied to:

1. Processor architecture

2. The Mac OS mode (the 'kernel')

3. Applications

I still haven't seen a clear explanation and differentiation of these in layman's terms, but the bottom line is that this article confirms what Shooshie said - there's no need to boot the Mac OS into the 64-bit kernel to run applications in 64-bit mode.

Hope this helps.

[David Polich]

Ok, this issue has been bugging me all weekend (I was out of town on family
holiday, but now I'm back). I have one very basic concern, and one very basic question:

1. To toggle DP8 into either 32 or 64 bit mode, we are supposed to click on the app icon, use "get info" (Command+I keys) and then when the info window
opens, set DP8 to run in 32-bit mode or 64-bit mode. Well, I have done "Get Info" on every single app I have and I do not see any "run in 32-bit mode"
checkbox. Maybe I don't have any 64-bit apps? I'm on 10.6.8 (Snow Leopard).

2. My main concern is related to 1 (above). All I want to do is continue running DP8 in 32-bit mode because I want to continue to use UAD, Korg Legacy, Melodyne 2.0, and NI's B4II, and any other plug-ins that are not 64-bit. And that is it, that is all I care about. In other words, I will be running DP8 in 32-bit mode, never 64-bit. 64-bit isn't a necessity for me - but these particular plug-ins are because I rely on them heavily.

[zed]

Most of my active projects are right on the verge of breaking.

Mine too! But for whatever reason the bottleneck on my computer doesn't allow DP to use more than 2.4GB of Real Memory before it chokes and crashes. On a few rare occasions it has gone up to 2.56GB or something (because the Real Memory usage grows fast even when I am not adding more plugins). Sometimes I realize I have exceeded the safety zone and save my project before I lose work, and sometimes it is too late...

If I can just get 4GB of Real Memory in my DP projects I will have almost doubled the number of VIs/plugins I can use and will be less stuck in all my projects. When I look at those images posted of applications using more than 2.4GB of Real Memory I get a real sense of longing and envy.

[mikehalloran]

...Mine too! But for whatever reason the bottleneck on my computer doesn't allow DP to use more than 2.4GB of Real Memory before it chokes and crashes.

At the risk of stating the obvious: Unlike MachV3 and the Photoshop apps in the pictures (thanks!), DP 7 is 32bit.

You will need DP 8.