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Are the synth abilities in M5 3 up to par with outright synths like Massive or Zebra, or does it have like 2nd or 3rd rate synth abilities attached to a good sampler? Are there a lot of good synth presets in M5 3, or is it a sound builders application, for folks who like to layer and tweak?

I'm torn between buying a Massive/Zebra combo or MachFive3.

Opinions?

It depends on which synth capabilities we're talking about. IRCAM processing turns any piece of any sound into a modulatable sound source. So, for example, if you like a particular chord in, say, Star Wars, or any other piece of music or sound, you can freeze that sound and play it as a patch. That alone is worth the price of admission and something only a sampler based VI could do. THen beyond that you can further manipulate the sound. It's deep and not for the casual user who doesn't like to dive to deep and just push buttons to get random sounds. It does that, but it's a waste to get M5 and not use the advanced editing features, not to mention the scripting capabilities.

But like the Korg Wavestation, is is effin' deep and while serious users will LOVE that, casual users might be a little intimidated by it. That's good., Less competition...

If all you want is superduper tweaking and modulation you might look at MX4 instead.

MachFive is plenty powerful to make synth sounds and a whole lot more.

ps - There is NOTHING 2nd or 3rd rate about M5. It's high quality software that has very unique and usable functions for those willing to take the time to learn it.

M5-3 smokes all the synthesizers you mentioned as it has all the forms of synthesis engines.
I have both M5-3 and Mx4, Mx4 is a fine and fun synthesizer and I feel I like it better than massive. MX4 is simpler than M5-3 and there for simpler to adjust the sounds on. M5-3 can do all of what MX4 can and one hell of a lot more. It has about every kind of synth and sampler there is and you can combine them any way you want and use the built in effects as well. M5-3 has become my go to VI and I have a number of VI’s so this says some thing. M5-3 has tons of sounds in it that are way cool right as they are and you can bring in most all 3rd party samples into it. If you want to dive into all it can do then I recommend you get the Groove training video. When you get the hang of M5-3 it is not hard to use and I can get the sound I am after plenty fast enough.

I own a K2000 w/sampling option (circa 1993!) and I used to be able to get some amazing sounds by sampling my own sounds and then running the samples through the K2's powerful synth engine. For example, a snippet of an african tribe singing backwards and running it through some crazy synth patch and applying effects. The results were amazing and totally original.

Can M5 3 do similar? If so, I'd love to see some examples.

I don't have time to create something but IRCAM alone can blow any K2000 manipulation out of the water. M5 is way ahead if it's time and will remain so for a very long time.

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:IRCAM alone can blow any K2000 manipulation out of the water.

Exactly what I was going to say when I saw the topic title. I have a K2000R V3, and with Mach 5 I'm no longer concerned about how long it's going to last. Just the Mach 5 synth presets could be tweaked to get a lot of what the K2000 does. In fact as I was going through them, it occurred to me that the programmers had a lot of Kurzweil sounds in mind.

Ok now I'm impressed. I think MOTU should really market this aspect of it, which is huge. Most of the demo videos I've seen seem to focus on the included boring sample libraries that don't really separate it from the competition.

I think a lot of electronic musicians and sound designers would love the sample/synth capabilities.

I would still love to see for example, a YouTube video of someone sampling their own material, manipulating it with the synth engine and playing it on a keyboard. Just a "here's what's possible" type of thing.

I already bought M5-3 when I attended a MOTU event in LA to demo the VI. The demo was amazing and told me so much more than what the PR did.

One exceptional example was taking ANY sound or recording and freeze the audio. IOW, what they did was take a section of Star Wars (if I am remembering correctly) and freeze a beautiful orchestral chord which quickly and easily became a patch.

Yes, MOTU needs to tout this more fully. It's a very significant VI and absolutely my go to VI for most everything.

some videos that you may find useful

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NM8WDh0Z2F4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zU3jWSudTQE

I've only recently upgraded to M5 3, so I'm still getting adjusted to it. But I have to say that so far the thing rocks. I started with M5 back with version 1, and each iteration has gotten better and better.

As for the synth capabilities, I am not in the least disappointed with it (so far). It's quite deep and extensive, so I'm glad I went for it.

It actually goes far beyond synth capabilities. It is sound manipulation of the highest order. Anyone who doesn't get the IRCAM stuff and how awesome the inclusion of those functions are has either not experienced it (understandable) or is just not savvy enough to appreciate the super terrific awesome amazing incredible potential of that inclusion.

I do think MOTU could do a much better job of letting people know what the IRCAM stuff can do. The thought of pulling a sliver of time and turning it into a usable patch is beyond anything I could ever have imagined. The application for creative music and sound folks is limitless.

Thanks for the info and the links. I have to say I'm intrigued!

One thing to add to this thread, here are some MOTU videos on MachFive synth capabilities the OP was interested in:

https://www.youtube.com/user/motuTV/vid ... y=machfive

Thanks bliff. I'd start here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zU3jWSudTQE