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Anyone know the particulars on obtaining licensing to produce a karaoke-style accompaniment track?

1) if there are multiple publishers do I need an agreement with each of them?

2) I've heard anecdotally that licensing is only required if sales exceed 2500 copies, but can't find any info to confirm that.

3) Should a publisher require monies up front, or a percentage of sales?

Thanks

Never done that kind of thing but I'd be very surprised if you didn't need individual licenses. Then again, this might also be considered a mechanical and as such you might only need to contact the Harry Fox Agency and secure a license for the # of copies you intend to make.

If you're going to do this as a business and for profit, you are well advised to have a copyright lawyer consult with you before publishing anything.

Thanks, MLC. Harry Fox offers a service just for this.

http://www.harryfox.com/public/DigitalLicenseslic.jsp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I misunderstood the 2500 thing - it's fewer than 2500 mechanical licenses. Not a problem.

But I'm intrigued by something I read on another thread just now. Mike Halloran wrote:

As for Harry Fox, you always have the option of imposing a compulsory license - either on the publisher or HFA - without paying HFA's ridiculous processing fees. It costs you the royalty and a certified letter the first time. If the publishers or HFA don't like it, they always have the option of not cashing your check. Knowing that HFA takes a cut of the royalty, I never pay the fees. They always cash the check.

When you call the publishers directly, they normally tell you the only way is through HFA. A compulsory license is your way of telling the publisher that your convenience is more important than theirs.

If, for some reason, the publisher doesn't cash the check, you still met the obligation for sending it certified. Title 17, Section 115 does not specify the form of the letter, only that the first one be certified and that you make monthly payments and include certain required information. When I do a one-off pressing, my letter explains that it is a one-off and that this check is the only one. Never had grief over that. Publishers always cash the checks, too.

Does this mean I can just send the royalties quarterly to HFA without their fees and this counts legally as a compulsory license?

Fascinating.

Check Karaoke Version's website to see if they talk about any of those legalities in a way that would be useful to you.

Also, check their website to see if you feel you can be competitive.

At one point I considered doing this, as I'm quite good at it, but then I was asked to do a cover sans vocals of "Pure Imagination" and it was a task too far... at which point I discovered Karaoke Version and was blown away!

I'm just being frank with you: you are up against HEAVY competition, for just a couple of dollars per song -- way less than those awful MIDI-based sites that haven't lowered their rates or improved their quality.

There is some legacy stuff at that site which is not up to par, but the more recent it is, the more likely it was all live musicians. Most are offered in multi-track versions.

Seriously, you might want to consider seeing if you have stuff that fills gaps in their catalogue and negotiate to sell through them?

I'm not trying to discourage you, but it's important to know what's out there -- especially when up-front licensing fees might be involved. And besides, maybe there's an opportunity there to collaborate with them, if it seems otherwise you would be at an unfair advantage competition-wise.

I'll be curious to see what you find out. I still have upwards of 40 songs that I did an extremely good job of, which I do not see listed on their site or on a couple of other higher-quality accompaniment sites.

Hi mhschmieder,
That is one impressive website. Very well designed and easy to use.

I'm sure I couldn't compete with that and don't really need to. Like you, I've got a library of tracks that I've made for personal use (I lead a gospel choir) and was wondering if I could market them on iTunes. They don't seem to have most of the titles I've done.

Funny, but one of my first jobs in music was producing Karaoke tracks for Pioneer back in the day. Now here I am again.

Re: "pure imagination" - Were you talking about Maroon 5 or Gene Wilder?

Gene Wilder version; the original. The entire song is rubato, and the instruments and vocals aren't even in sync from the point of view of Broadway interpretation. It's what gives it much of its charm. Trying to reproduce every nuance of timing wasn't worth it. The Karaoke Version track doesn't either, but it nails the feel and so served the purpose (we changed the lyrics so needed an instrumental-only backing).

So, Karaoke-Version says they are not looking for new material. Doh.

Anyhow, here's the current confusion. If I can obtain a compulsory license I merely have to pay the publisher monthly, or Harry Fox quarterly, in accordance with Title 17, and I should be good right?

But what if there are multiple publishers for a title? The first song I tried this with has 4 publishers and is not registered with Harry Fox. At least one of the publishers has a non-working phone number, and the others are so far unreachable.

Can I just send a check to Harry Fox anyway? I found the publisher who owns the copyright but that publisher shares the copyright with another owner (Some bank).

Why is it so difficult to give money away these days?

>1) if there are multiple publishers do I need an agreement with each of them?<

Yes - but only if you intend to split the Mechanical. Otherwise, it's an arrangement and arrangers are not entitled to share the copyright (performance or mechanicals).

As long as you pay the full 9.1 cents per song and claim no Copyright, a compulsory license will do. With 4 publishers, I'd send the money to the HFA and let them sort it out.

>2) I've heard anecdotally that licensing is only required if sales exceed 2500 copies, but can't find any info to confirm that.<

Lots of interesting rumors that have no basis in fact floating around on the internet. Someone thinks that they don't have to pay me unless I am owed $227.50? I don't think so. There are PROs and record companies that will not issue a check unless it is $25 or more - that is not anecdotal - while others will pay even if it is 27 cents for three copies.

>3) Should a publisher require monies up front, or a percentage of sales?<

The traditional model is that royalties are paid quarterly based on sales. The Compulsory License language in Title 17 assumes nothing else. I believe that, if you do a one-off pressing, it's easier to pay for it up front and include language indicating so in the certified letter. I have never had a publisher or HFA not cash my check because I didn't pay quarterlies.

The industry standard write-off is 20% for promo copies. With karaoke CDs, you are not going to be giving away one out of five.

Any publisher and/or the HFA has a right to audit your records. Keep good ones. The industry standard write-off doesn't mean a thing: if your audit shows you only gave away 5%, you'd have to come up with the other 15%.

>http://www.harryfox.com/public/DigitalLicenseslic.jsp"

I misunderstood the 2500 thing - it's fewer than 2500 mechanical licenses. Not a problem.<

HFA applies different rules on licensing if it's under 2,500. They do not let you skate.

The HFA does a lot of things that make their company more profitable. Online fees is one of them. A supposed minimum is another. A Compulsory License gets around all of that. They get a percentage of the royalty check. If they don't like it, they can return your check

Hello forum.

Theodosius, try Hit Trax. They are always looking for talented MIDI programmers/musicians. Actually, just recently they started compiling a library of karaoke files using live musicians.
With them, you can either get payed per song and they take care of the copyrights/royalties or, you can pay all royalties and they'll take a percentage from the sales.

The owner/director of the company is John Ialuna. You can contact him at the following link:

http://www.hittrax.com.au/contact.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hope this helps,
Adriano

Interesting. I occasionally need Karaoke tracks, and must admit I'm pretty floored by the quality and ridiculously low cost of the Karaoke-Version tracks.

Not to mention that one can go back and pull each track separately and mix yourself. (on the ones that are customizable)

Buzzy

"Who are these guys?" (or something similar from Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Adriano, thanks for the recommendation. I'll check them out.

I have a project needing karaoke tracks for big band standards. Any recommendations?

Mike, is this an ongoing need, or do you have a set of specific songs you already know you need?

Also, are there specific parts you tend to need for the backing, or does it vary a lot?

In other words, if Karaoke Version or the other sites mentioned here neither have the songs you need or have an affordable service to do them as custom tracks, I'm thinking you might have some willing, able, and cheap musicians out my way that would be thrilled to throw together something that would serve as backing.

I'm thinking specifically of Diablo Valley College in Pleasant Hill CA, which my own jazz band uses as sort of a farm team of sorts anyway. We have a lot of contacts there and could probably quickly refer you to musicians that would cover your needs and who would not blow the budget.

mhschmieder wrote:Mike, is this an ongoing need, or do you have a set of specific songs you already know you need?

Also, are there specific parts you tend to need for the backing, or does it vary a lot?

In other words, if Karaoke Version or the other sites mentioned here neither have the songs you need or have an affordable service to do them as custom tracks, I'm thinking you might have some willing, able, and cheap musicians out my way that would be thrilled to throw together something that would serve as backing.

I'm thinking specifically of Diablo Valley College in Pleasant Hill CA, which my own jazz band uses as sort of a farm team of sorts anyway. We have a lot of contacts there and could probably quickly refer you to musicians that would cover your needs and who would not blow the budget.

I am working on a vanity project with a limited budget. I'll contact you on this.