Maybe a Frame Rate Issue?

[Movies]

Hi y'all.

For some reason, when I play back the sequence chunk that I'm working on, the music is not synch-ing with the picture -- it's getting off a little.

I checked with the director -- my frame rate definitely matches the movie. I'm also at a constant tempo.

When I scrub over the markers, they hit the film perfectly and, obviously, the music is visually matching up to everything as it should.

When I play it back, however, it's not always lining up -- and seems to line up differently at different times for no rhyme or reason.

Any ideas?

[bricker]

Is it *way* off, or just 1 or 2 frames?

Check the video start time. It should be the time code for the first frame of the movie file. You can add time code bits (subdivisions of time code) if you're having issues where the video is just slightly off in some places. You'll have to play around with exactly how much. Sometimes I have to add just 1 time code bit for it to fall perfectly in place, sometimes it's much more (I've added up to 45). Honestly, I'm not sure why this happens exactly, but every once in a while I have to do it.

Also check that you are in Drop Frame or Non-Drop Frame, depending on what the video is in. If it's wrong, the video might gradually fall out of sync.

Also, open up the video in QuickTime standalone and check the Movie Inspector for frame rate. Maybe the director is telling you the wrong frame rate.

My last advice is to close the movie, and then open it again. Perhaps it's just a rendering issue in DP.

[Movies]

Thanks, Bricker!

It seems like it's just a rendering thing maybe?

The Quicktime frame rate is for sure the same frame rate that the director gave me all of my start times seem to be okay.

The amount that it's off changes -- it seems like maybe it gets worse the more I play it. It definitely seems to get better when I close the whole project file down and then re-open it.

I have a bunch of different sequence chunks at different tempos that I'm pasting/arranging inside a master-chunk that's at 120bpm.

This problem is happening in each chunk AND in the master-chunk.

Super weird!

[Movies]

Interestingly enough, though the problem continues within the project file, it bounces [to Quicktime movie] perfectly.

[audios]

Questions for you;

1. Does your tempo change at all during the cue?

2. Do you change time signatures say from 4/4 to 6/8?

3. Does your QT movie have a window burn stripped in TV safe?

4. If so are numbers matching between the window burn and DP?

This has happened to me sometimes but its because I have had a part (guitar or piano) given to me and I analyze the tempo in the soundbite and then the conductor track follows the tempo of the soundbite i have analyzed, which may wander from your original tempo markers. Also, if for some reason you decided to change tempo from the 120BPM of the original template after you imported audio from the QT movie, it will affect running time too.

Another thing I have done is make sure to get a DVCPRO-NTSC or Motion JPEG-A from the editor because they hold time code better than other compressions. MPEG-4 will wander a lot among other compressions.

[audios]

Thanks, Bricker!

I have a bunch of different sequence chunks at different tempos that I'm pasting/arranging inside a master-chunk that's at 120bpm.

This problem is happening in each chunk AND in the master-chunk.

Super weird!

Something I have also made a practice of doing is scoring a segment of the film or one cue as a completely separate DP project and stay out of the original chunk except to import a stereo rough 2-mix for previews. Then I can be sure that each cue syncs to the QT because I'm only using a QT for the portion I need and no other chunks or sequences are in my project file for each cue.

good luck!

[Movies]

Hey audios!

1. Nope.

2. Nope.

3. Nope.

It really seems like a frame rate thing (except for everything bouncing fine).

If I play an entire cue, I see the musical hits not lining up with the markers. However! If I drag the scrubber-thing and put it directly in front of any marker and then hit play, the hits are fine -- the closer to a marker I start, apparently, the more correct the playback is [visually].

[Apeth]

Hi Movies

Is your QT codec .h264 or mp4 or something similar? This could be a codec issue. Have you tried converting the file to something like DV, DVCPro, Photo Jpeg, if it isn't already in one of these formats?
Some of the more common codecs like .h264 are being used more and more in post, but they're really distribution formats. Anyway, worth a try if you haven't already.

[FMiguelez]

Hey audios!

1. Nope.

2. Nope.

3. Nope.

It really seems like a frame rate thing (except for everything bouncing fine).

If I play an entire cue, I see the musical hits not lining up with the markers. However! If I drag the scrubber-thing and put it directly in front of any marker and then hit play, the hits are fine -- the closer to a marker I start, apparently, the more correct the playback is [visually].

I think the behavior you are getting is simply unacceptable. You could have a million tempo changes and tons of meter changes and the QT movie should follow perfectly.

This is definitely not normal at all! I wish I could give you troubleshooting ideas, but I've never experienced that behavior

[Movies]

FM: I appreciate your support!

I don't know what it is -- it's completely weird. Every other cut the director has sent over has worked fine.

In the beginning, I really was having a frame rate problem -- I was at 30fps and the video was at 25. I made the switch super-early-on, though -- in fact, none of the stuff that I wrote pre-switching-the-frame-rate is even being used. Everything I've composed that's been chosen was definitely written at the proper frame rate.

Apeth: How would I figure that out exactly? Also, the fact that everything is bouncing to disk okay seems like it's a problem internal to DP [read: something that I'm doing wrong on my end], no?

[Apeth]

Apeth: How would I figure that out exactly? Also, the fact that everything is bouncing to disk okay seems like it's a problem internal to DP [read: something that I'm doing wrong on my end], no?

If you open the file in Quicktime ( X or 7 ) and go Window>Show Movie Inspector. This should tell you what format your movie is encoded with. It might not be the answer to your problem, but it could be that if it is a codec such as .h264, HDV ( which is mpeg 2 based ) or mp4, that it could throw timing out inconsistently, but still bounce to disk OK. I'm an editor and have to deal with these codecs a lot nowadays. They can be problematic sometimes. They are distribution formats and weren't really made for editing unlike for example; ProRes or DVCPro Hd.

[Movies]

I just had an interesting thought.

For the past couple of weeks, audio has been cutting out across the board on my whole system. Like, things'll be cruising along fine and then, out of nowhere, sound'll just cut out (though my speakers are still hissing as if they're ready to go) and there's no audio anywhere (iTunes, DP, safari -- nothing).

I started reading up on what could be causing it and it seems like a hardware problem -- specifically, the PreSonus Firepod. There are, like, a jillion cases on line that catalogue similar audio-output problems with this interface.

So, seeing as the main issue I catalogued in this thread earlier is so weird and anomalous, what are the chances, do y'all think, that my interface could be having some serious problems and a side-effect is maybe some kind of clock issue that is causing DP to render stuff in a peculiar fashion?

[audios]

So, seeing as the main issue I catalogued in this thread earlier is so weird and anomalous, what are the chances, do y'all think, that my interface could be having some serious problems and a side-effect is maybe some kind of clock issue that is causing DP to render stuff in a peculiar fashion?

The SMPTE clock is typically set to "internal" which means the MAC is reading/writing TC rather than an external device. If you are using the PreSonus as an external clock for the system then yes, this would be the problem.

I run DP through a MOTU 828-mkII and either run in "internal" or "SMPTE" clock mode and I am always locked up tightly with a QT movie in DVCPRO-NTSC or a Motion JPEG-A formats. I always have a window burn on the QT movie either from the editor or I do it myself with this;
http://www.tokitest.fr/english/tokitc.html This insures that TC jives between the QT and DP always not matter where I am in the time line.

I also send a test sync section of the film I'm working to the editor with a head and tail pop to make sure sync and TC are aligned properly. I have been following these basic setups for over ten years in DP without failure.

I think Presonus makes some great gear but you may want to consider upgrading your A/D-D/A sound card.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

You don't provide any system info so we're in the dark there. Could be (and probably is) a graphics and/or processor issue. Use a smaller movie (export from QTime Pro or 10) and don't resize the movie window. If you're on a G4 or less, upgrade the system. I'm on a G5 dual 2.0 (PPC of course) and generally use a movie at 320x240. Once the audio is imported to DP, I delete the audio from the QT file as well.