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Things are not as rosey as I'd like them to be this morning and the outlook is unfortunately not good. The AudioExpress works fine for the most part, but there are a few things that make it unusable for me.

1- Minor issue: The driver doesn't hook into the system audio so volume (and one would assume muting as well) has to be controlled from the front panel or software. If the phone rings and you want to mute the system, you have to either do it from the front panel (and the buttons are so close together that is difficult as it is) or you could turn off your speakers or presumably the AudioExpress itself, but if you are recording something and the phone rings, all you can do is turn off the speakers or fumble with the tiny volume knobs. Not a good idea in a session, IMO and awkward as it is unprofessional looking (and sounding).

2- Major issue: There is no way to control the input volume coming from the system (in the box) including from DP! Tech support this morning verified this with me and suggested I use the app(s) volume (Master fader or sub mix in DP, volume in other apps) to control this. And what about apps like Safari that may not have a volume control? S.O.L. my friends! You will get full volume and you'll have to mix everything from each individual app to balance it all. I don't think so! Not this kid!

At first I couldn't even control the main output from the front panel and had to factory reset the unit (press & hold mix and power buttons simultaneously for three seconds). And even then, it is not really clear that the switching to control the phones, mains or combo is quite as discrete as one might expect. Performance seemed a bit haphazard.

So the unit goes back to the vendor and I remain using my M-Audio FW 410. Sucks! I really wanted this puppy to work for me, but it is not to be. MOTU could not say if these will be addressed in the future. If they are, I may look at this again. In the mean time, it's back to looking at Apogee.

Sorry the news isn't better... it's hard to believe that MOTU would have put this out like this. Serious folks are not going to touch it, IMO. No mute? No system volume control? No control over how much of the system makes it into the box?! A bit more than an oversight, IMO.

What a big bummer.

c-ya,

Dan Worley

1) I don't think any of the MOTU does that. I'm looking to get something like this for my writing setup:
http://www.tcelectronic.com/levelpilot.asp
In the studio setup it goes through and SMPro M-Patch 2.
Both those give the system a volume knob that's even more convenient than using the macs built in audio controls. Although at a cost.

2) This one I don't understand at all. Do you want a mixer that controls the volume for every application you run? Or just a master send? If the later, why not just turn down the volume? (once you've gotten the knob to do it)

Sounds to me it's working pretty much like every other MOTU interface.
All I miss is a huge didicated voulume control (it's a bit fiddly on the 828mk3 too).

I need overall volume control as well as what I am sending to the device from the Mac. Even my lowly FW410 does that - crappy M-Audio drivers and all, but it gets worse. Now DP won't load some AUs as well as some of the plugs that come with DP. What the heck? I am NOT a happy caper at all this morning.

And muting audio while continuing to record is a no brainer. Why is this not accessible from the system audio controls? Very poor design IMO, and if the other MOTU stuff is similarly disabled, I would say that you don't know what you're actually missing. Eye opener...

Off to repair permissions and see if I can get my damn plugs back... arrrrg!

Error window capture from DP:

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:1- Minor issue: The driver doesn't hook into the system audio so volume (and one would assume muting as well) has to be controlled from the front panel or software.

All professional quality audio interfaces are like this. Look at Metric Halo or Avid interfaces. They also expect you to control the main output volume from the front panel of the device. Only the simplest audio devices use the system volume.

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:2- Major issue: There is no way to control the input volume coming from the system (in the box) including from DP! Tech support this morning verified this with me and suggested I use the app(s) volume (Master fader or sub mix in DP, volume in other apps) to control this.

Which audio interfaces do provide level control for individual programs? There are none that I know of. The implementation would be very complicated if it's even possible.

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:And even then, it is not really clear that the switching to control the phones, mains or combo as quite as discrete as one might expect. Performance seems a bit haphazard.

It was quite clear for me after I read the manual that the Phones volume knob has three modes that are indicated by the +main LED on the front panel: When the LED is off, the knob controls only the headphones output. When the LED is on, the knob controls the headphones output and the main outputs relative to each other. When the LED is blinking, the knob controls only the main outputs.

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:I really wanted this puppy to work for me, but it is not to be. MOTU could not say if these will be addressed in the future. If they are, I may look at this again.
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Sorry the news isn't better... it's hard to believe that MOTU would have put this out like this. Serious folks are not going to touch it, IMO. No mute? No system volume control? No control over how much of the system makes it into the box?! A bit more than an oversight, IMO.

You're just wishing that the device does things that it wasn't designed to do. I have found that the way the Audio Express works is consistent with all the other MOTU FireWire and USB audio interfaces I've used. People seem to be mostly satisfied with how their 828mk3s, 8pres, and other MOTU boxes work. But you don't seem to have given the Audio Express enough time to figure out how it would fit into your workflow. Rather, you began using it with certain expectations about how it should work (perhaps if you had designed it), and then dismissed it when you found that it didn't meet those somewhat arbitrary expectations. In my opinion, the severity of your tone in this review does a disservice to the Audio Express and to the other MOTU devices that operate similarly.

{Double post deleted}

1nput0utput wrote:Only the simplest audio devices use the system volume.

Simple is good, IMO. Scrambling for a tiny knob in a session is not.

1nput0utput wrote:Which audio interfaces do provide level control for individual programs?

I never said that so please don't put words in my mouth. The level going from the output of the Mac overall is what I want to control, not individual programs. MOTU tells me I have to apply volumes from each program to control what goes from the Mac to the device. That makes no sense at all.

1nput0utput wrote:It was quite clear for me after I read the manual that the Phones volume knob has three modes...

Yes, the manual is clear and it didn't work that way until a factory reset. Not a good start.

1nput0utput wrote:You're just wishing that the device does things that it wasn't designed to do. ...But you don't seem to have given the Audio Express enough time to figure out how it would fit into your workflow.

You really seem to have an agenda here. The box is simple enough to understand and operate. I went thru all this with MOTU tech on the phone and he was sympathetic. If you have the box then I suspect you either preordered before it was announced or are a beta tester? I won't ask, but you've obviously spent more time with it than the average user has had a chance to and seem quite defensive. I have no "feelings" nor am I a new kid on the block about this stuff. I ordered the first day it was out (a mistake I will never make again).

And the reason all many of my plugs stopped loading properly - even after repaired permissions and clearing PRAM? After running the uninstall program, all the plugs went south. I just called MOTU and spoke to another tech who insisted the uninstall program would not change anything - yet the MAS AudioUnit Support.bundle was missing in action? Coincidence? He thought so. I remain unconvinced.

I replaced the entire AUDIO folder in the system library and the plugs are back. Man I love TimeMachine for crap like this - but I shouldn't have had to use it. And I LOVE DP. Really, I do, but the new hardware from MOTU... not so much.

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:The level going from the output of the Mac overall is what I want to control, not individual programs. MOTU tells me I have to apply volumes from each program to control what goes from the Mac to the device. That makes no sense at all.

I still don't understand what you mean by this. How is that different from the output out of the interface? Doesn't a good volume knob fix that? I understand you can argue a design flaw if it has no easy-to-use volume knob. Like the 828mk3 where it's much to small and too close to other knobs to be easy to use. That's why I'm getting a TC Level Pilot.

Even if I use the Mac's built in audio I have to adjust each program's volume individually.

How did it work with the M-Audio?

OK, let's try this...



See the far left stereo pair in the mixer? That is the Mac signal to the box. I can attenuate that which, is helpful to say the least when monitoring against, say, a mic or outboard gear or anything from outside the Mac that may have a lower signal.

The AudioExpress (and now I believe according to the posts) all MOTUs other interfaces as well as a fair number of devices from other manufacturers DO NOT allow you to attenuate the signal level from the Mac to the box. According to MOTU, I'd have to go into every source (iTunes, DP, AudioFinder, DVD player, etc) and attenuate the signal in each app individually. I don't think so.

That is lame IMO, regardless of how expensive the box you are using is. Control of all signal paths is better, IMO, than having the one signal path from the Mac (or PC?) be "what it is - live with it."

That might work for you. It doesn't work for me. Guess I'm spoiled by simplicity. It's not a bad place to be, really.

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:

1nput0utput wrote:It was quite clear for me after I read the manual that the Phones volume knob has three modes...

Yes, the manual is clear and it didn't work that way until a factory reset. Not a good start.

So your unit had a glitch that you cleared out. It happens. Non-issue?

You really seem to have an agenda here. The box is simple enough to understand and operate. I went thru all this with MOTU tech on the phone and he was sympathetic. If you have the box then I suspect you either preordered before it was announced or are a beta tester? I won't ask, but you've obviously spent more time with it than the average user has had a chance to and seem quite defensive. I have no "feelings" nor am I a new kid on the block about this stuff. I ordered the first day it was out (a mistake I will never make again).

I don't think it's fair to cry "agenda" here. Someone might think the same about a review trashing this box. I need to see if I can do all the things you say it should do with my HD192. Not sure that I can. Obviously, the need hasn't come up in my personal workflow.

Fair enough, James. I changed the topic title to reflect your comments. I do feel a little jumped on and I don't know why. I know people can "not" like something by MOTU and be heard here - but my concerns are all genuine. I agree, resetting the box was not a big deal - but it was significant on a new install I think.

It also ends up that the installer replaces the MIDI driver as well as the audio driver and that these are NOT compatible with other system elements when dropping back to a previous system. They aren't even compatible with DP 7.22 in a sense since the uninstaller removed the MAS file (previous post) as well as replaced (and or deleted) the MIDI driver, making the MOTU MIDIExpress 128 non-functional until I reapplied the MIDI driver [MOTU_MIDI_Installer-1.5.37320] from January 2010. The new drivers are obviously essential for the AudioExpress, but take that away and you have to reinstall the old drivers. MOTU suggested I reinstall DP, which would have worked, of course. Restoring the Audio folder fixed the plugs and apply the MIDI driver restored the router.

I'm good to go again, thank you.

Try this: Can you access S/PDIF in the driver window? If so, try running a S/PDIF cable from input to output. Is S/PDIF available as a CueMix input? If so, you might be able to route the S/PDIF to the main outs with attenuation in line. I do precisely this with my Traveler's TOSlink optical ports, and it achieves exactly what you want. I see that the Audio Express doesn't have optical, so I'm not sure this will work. Worth a shot.

Thanks cuttime, but I need my S/PDIFs. Besides, the unit is on its way to the Brooklyn Navy Yard as we post (really!) That's where B&H PHoto has their return center.

It wasn't a critical buy for me but I was hopeful that I could update my interface and clock for a reasonable cost. I did try to use the cool additional software, but didn't seem to see the Macs audio either. I was not about to play with all that unless I could make the box work as I needed it to and I couldn't.

I'll look at Focusrite and a few others, but attenuation of the Macs output is, in fact, a deal breaker for me. I'm a much bigger fan (a fanboy even... ) of MOTU & DP than I am of M-Audio. But for the moment, my FW410 is a better interface for my studio (however simple) than the new box from MOTU.

Whatever... back to post (production, that is, not -ing).

MIDI, I'd encourage you to consider a compact monitor controller to use with whatever audo interface your have... I have a Presonus Monitor Station ($300 or less) and have used the similarly priced Mackie Big Knob. There are others available as well. Both the Presonus and Mackie give you much better (multiple) headphone amps, speaker switching, mute switch, and a nice big volume control knob. Makes the whole user experience way more enjoyable.

Thank you, HC. I don't change the room volume all that much. I don't even change the mix of Mac generated sounds to external sounds, but I DO change them and need them.

Frankly, I'm really surprised that isn't a standard thing. I really wanted to like that little box