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I am reposting a question from a chap in the UK. Thanks for any help.




Can anyone tell me how, in DP, to varispeed audio? That is, pitch and speed the track up (or down) in one go, as it would in a sampler, or with tape varispeed?

We can pitch audio, or time-stretch audio (all of which result in artifacts), but I have yet to discover how to perform this simple function...... for instance double the pitch while doubling the speed (as with tape).

larbok wrote:I am reposting a question from a chap in the UK. Thanks for any help.




Can anyone tell me how, in DP, to varispeed audio? That is, pitch and speed the track up (or down) in one go, as it would in a sampler, or with tape varispeed?

We can pitch audio, or time-stretch audio (all of which result in artifacts), but I have yet to discover how to perform this simple function...... for instance double the pitch while doubling the speed (as with tape).

Check the manual pg. 843 for an overview of DP's pitch shifting features. What you want to do is part of DP's feature set.

On pg. 851 there's mention of "Standard Pitch Shift" mode as opposed to "Pure DSP Pitch Shift" mode. For tape-like varispeed effects, you'd want to use Standard mode for whatever soundbite's pitch you are automating...

You can also use Nanosampler, but the limit on the sample length is 20 seconds.

I don’t think there is a good way. Drives me crazy, such a simple function and apparently everyone’s forgotten how to do it. It’s ridiculous, actually.

bb

Logic 9 does tape-style varispeed as does Ableton Live. ProTools too I think? DP does not do anything close . Let's hope they add this extremely useful feature very soon.

dix wrote:Logic 9 does tape-style varispeed as does Ableton Live. ProTools too I think? DP does not do anything close . Let's hope they add this extremely useful feature very soon.

Lord knows I can count the times I've needed tape-style varispeed on almost one hand. To each their own.

dix wrote:Logic 9 does tape-style varispeed as does Ableton Live. ProTools too I think? DP does not do anything close . Let's hope they add this extremely useful feature very soon.

I'm curious, how is it useful? As an effect? Or locking to a tape mechanisms changes in speed? I just don't see where in a song you'd want to vary the speed up and down... I must be getting old.

bongo_x wrote:I don’t think there is a good way. Drives me crazy, such a simple function and apparently everyone’s forgotten how to do it. It’s ridiculous, actually.

bb

Maybe it's sort of an issue left over from the fact that when that's ALL you could do in the tape days, it sucked. We all wanted to be able to increase the tempo without affecting the pitch. Or... you wanted to raise pitch without affecting tempo. DAWs made those seeming miracles reality. Now we want to go back. I dunno. Perhaps nobody thought that recreating the limitations of tape in a DAW would one day be a desirable feature. I've heard people wanting to do special effects sorts of things to duplicate tape coming to a stop or speeding up. But I guess I was unaware that people would want to use this for an entire song or something... and force a link between tempo and pitch on purpose?

Apart from the sound-effects you can come up with recording things at various speeds, it's very useful for cheating difficult parts on the guitar and other instruments. It used to be my not-so-secret weapon back when I recorded to tape: record a solo at reduced speed and then speed it up to normal makes the player sound far better than they actually are. You could/can get really interesting effects on other things as well. There's a certain super-thin rhythm guitar sound that one used to hear on 70s R&B records (EW&F, Confunkshun) I miss too. ....lots of stuff you can do with it. i read no beatles record after around rubber soul *didn't* use vari-speed at some point during the process.

What he said. I mostly use it for creative effects, when it’s available I use it a lot.

The guitar solo in the beginning of “Get Down Tonight” by KC and the Sunshine Band. That’s not a keyboard.

The thing is, in all the early software, and the cheap software, this was the only way to change pitch. It’s not something that’s hard for them to implement, it’s just an oversight. I can open any number of low end, or free editors and do it, it’s just a pain in the butt.

Another thing, and a big one for me, is that it just sounds way better. If you have an unpitched sound, which is usually percussive, it sounds way better to varispeed it than to use DSP pitch shifting.

bb

Two ways to do it of which I am aware...

1) Slave DP to a clock that has a frequency control... Big Ben, an old ADAT, etc... and pretend DP is tape.

2) Sample a rough mix into Nano Sampler, Kontakt, Mach5, etc. and transpose as desired, perform/record to the transposed sample, then sample and transpose the recorded performance back to the tonic.

bongo_x wrote:What he said. I mostly use it for creative effects, when it’s available I use it a lot.

The guitar solo in the beginning of “Get Down Tonight” by KC and the Sunshine Band. That’s not a keyboard.

Hey, Bongo_x,or qixdix, do you think you could give me a few VERY OBVIOUS examples of varispeed (the way it wants to be used by the OP) on a more modern context, please? Perhaps a couple of different creative usages. I'm very curious about hearing that in a song.
I don't know, just something you really like.

I tried iTunes to check your "Get Down Tonight" example, but, of course, the song started almost from the end, so couldn't hear it

Thanks!

It was a common trick also to record slightly slow or fast, then when played back at normal speed the tracks had different tonalities. Houses of the Holy by Led Zeppelin you can tell Plant was sped up up a bit just by the timbre of his voice, a good example being Song Remains the Same. Sounds just slightly chipmunk-y if you listen closely. The motive may have been to give the appearance of higher singing range rather than timbre, or maybe Plant couldn't quite hit the pitches so they slowed the tape down to accommodate him. I've read where that was pretty common back in the tape days. I know it was done the other way too, recorded faster/played back back slower which had a darker sort of sinister growly sound.

Another 'effect' or maybe gimmick was leaving the tape-turn-on or turn-off at the beginning or end of a song, with the countoff, studio noise, etc instead of editing it out. Used on lots of albums but I know Leon Russell's blue album is one example. So you hear a coming up to speed at the beginning or a fall-off at the end of the song.

I don't think there is a better way to take years off one's voice than a little varispeed. It is also a great way to make harmonies sound richer.

I don’t know any modern uses, I don’t know much music that might be on the radio. Most of the time it’s not obvious anyway. The KC track is pretty obvious once you hear it. It’s actually through the whole song. Here’s the intro:

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There’s actually two slightly different techniques being discussed. To change the speed while you’re recording, or process the tracks later. You can get mostly the same results either way, but you wouldn’t, the approach is different.

If you have an instrument that can’t be easily tuned, an old pump organ or something that’s slightly out, you varispeed the tape to make it in tune and play with that. As Mr. Brown said, speed the tape up or slow it down and play along to have a different tone when played back normal. These are the reason tape machines have varispeeds, and I still use them all the time, with tape and computers. You can still do that with DP and an external clock.

As far as using a varispeed type pitch shift, I do it a lot for the tonal possibilities. Slow down a drum loop and make sound heavier, etc.

These are classic techniques that were used constantly but are being forgotten today.

bb