A question for Pros. Is this POSSIBLE?

[InformationJunkie]

Hey guys,


I really need a realistic sounding Timpani for a project I'm working on and I dont have access to a studio. I've done some research about new techniques using "Physical Modeling".
Im sick of using the same pre-recorded samples from my library of VSTs.

I'm very curious to know if anyone has done any experiments with creating physically modeled sounds?

Any theories or advice would be really appreciated before I approach this.


Thanks! I'll check back frequently!

[1nput0utput]

Check out Applied Acoustics. I don't think they have a timpano physical model, but they have a bunch of other instruments.

http://www.applied-acoustics.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[newrigel]

How many different articulations could there be for a timpani that sampling couldn't cover?

[Shooshie]

You'd be surprised. Different sticks, different parts of the drumhead, different tunings.

Pure physical modeling takes a lot of CPU power, but there are other methods that begin with a wave form, then give you basically infinite control over what you do with it. Wallander Instruments were created that way, I think. Arne Wallander has said many times that we just don't have the CPU power to do pure physical modeling, which basically has to define the air, properties of collisions of atoms, the physical space, and everything else. Perhaps a conversation with Arne Wallander might lead to your creating a line of modeled drums, or his doing the same. Who knows?

Wallander Instruments

Shooshie

[newrigel]

I should have said in "most context"... Spectrasonics Trilian is pretty convincing for a bass VI... all sampled and it covers quite a large scope of articulations that one would use for contextual songwriting. Now if you want to solo better learn how to play a real instrument.

Korg has the wavedrum that just got a retooling. It's has some really cool new features... and no samples, it's physical modeling.

[philbrown]

I keep hearing good things about some PM modules that come with Live but haven't checked them out myself yet. Also if you happen to own Reaktor check out the ensemble called Steampipe2. It's very cool but I don't recall all the patches in it to say if there's a Timpani in there or not. It's a fun one to play around with and some of the sounds are quite complex and interesting.

[bralston]

What sample libraries are you referring to as the ones that aren't cutting it for you? Perhaps I or someone else can recommend ones that would be better.

Sampling percussion instruments is actually one of the areas where sampling excels in my opinion. I have found sample modeling to be best in the instruments that create a large amount of overtones. Sample Modeling's The Trumpet is a great example. But for a timpani...sample recordings of the instrument (as long as the sampling is extensive enough and programmed with good scripting for ease of use)...is pretty darn good.

[David Polich]

Don't waste your time trying to find a physically modeled timpani - there isn't one. Building one with something like Applied Acoustics Tassman will just frustrate you and won't give you the right results.

Trust me - you're better off with sampled timpani. Here's a good timpani library:

http://www.bigfishaudio.com/4DCGI/detail.html?1486" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Believe it or not, the Yamaha Motif XS has some great timpani samples.
I created the "Complete Orchestra" library for the Motif XS, you can hear demos of the percussion (including timpani) here - click on "Drums and Percussion" demo:
http://shop.motifator.com/index.php/voi ... if-xs.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There are also excellent timpani in any of the Vienna Symphonic Orchestra libraries, as well as the EastWest orchestral libraries.

[newrigel]

Don't waste your time trying to find a physically modeled timpani - there isn't one.

There isn't?

So is the Wavedrum WD-X a novelty? I’d say certainly not, though it is obviously niche. It can be played as a one-man-band in its own right, or otherwise I believe that it will be used for creating quick additions to songs - making use of sounds like timpani will, I rather suspect, appeal to the more dramatic performers out there.

So yes... it does timpani. Plus, Scott Rockenfield (Queensryche) has some killer videos on Korgs website using it. Now that's one hell of a drummer there!

[FMiguelez]

.

If you want something REALLY good, with LOTS of articulations, and even some special effects, with different kind of beaters, etc., there's nothing better than Vienna Instruments.

They ain't cheap, though. Check them out and see if your needs justify their price tag.

[bralston]

I am not a fan of the Vienna "Silent stage" approach to recording their instruments. While the library overall is undoubtedly used by many Pros...and can be coaxed into some great cues...I find the multiple microphone and distance recording techniques of something like Project Sam's True Strike percussion to be much more responsive and realistic in the long run. That is just my opinion. Many will have a different one.

The Timpani's in Project Sam's True Strike "Cinematic Orchestral Percussion" are awesome and get constant use in my template. (It is my go to orchestral percussion library).

http://www.projectsam.com

[David Polich]

Don't waste your time trying to find a physically modeled timpani - there isn't one.

There isn't?

So is the Wavedrum WD-X a novelty? I’d say certainly not, though it is obviously niche. It can be played as a one-man-band in its own right, or otherwise I believe that it will be used for creating quick additions to songs - making use of sounds like timpani will, I rather suspect, appeal to the more dramatic performers out there.

So yes... it does timpani. Plus, Scott Rockenfield (Queensryche) has some killer videos on Korgs website using it. Now that's one hell of a drummer there!

Wasn't aware that there was a timpani sound in the wavedrum, apologies.
I was thinking of physical modeling software in my reply to the post.

[newrigel]

If I was going to do anything with realism... I'd go with the wavedrum because it sounds as close as your going to get to the real deal. Some things haven't really hit home in the computer software sector and some of the dedicated devices are actually superior to software in a computer. I only use VI's for the strengths they have... if they can't cut it I'll go elsewhere... like a real person actually playing an instrument for example. If the track is that discerning I wouldn't use a VI anyway... just do the real deal.

[David Polich]

If I was going to do anything with realism... I'd go with the wavedrum because it sounds as close as your going to get to the real deal. Some things haven't really hit home in the computer software sector and some of the dedicated devices are actually superior to software in a computer. I only use VI's for the strengths they have... if they can't cut it I'll go elsewhere... like a real person actually playing an instrument for example. If the track is that discerning I wouldn't use a VI anyway... just do the real deal.

Like this ?

http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/CDA/Con ... TID=234800" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Shooshie]

If I was going to do anything with realism... I'd go with the wavedrum because it sounds as close as your going to get to the real deal. Some things haven't really hit home in the computer software sector and some of the dedicated devices are actually superior to software in a computer. I only use VI's for the strengths they have... if they can't cut it I'll go elsewhere... like a real person actually playing an instrument for example. If the track is that discerning I wouldn't use a VI anyway... just do the real deal.

Like this ?

http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/CDA/Con ... TID=234800" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

TP-7200 Series
Hand Hammered Symphonic Series
Hand-hammered copper bowls with a Pedal Adjustment clutch and heavy, 4mm drawn steel rim with steel suspension ring.

I only need a tympani once in a while, but I've just gotta say that these would be worth having for that day. I guess I could use them for cat trampolines in the meantime...