Mixing Bass in DP

[XXF]

Hey. I am working on a mix in DP. Among 40 or so tracks, I have 2 bass guitar tracks (a direct in and miked bass). I am having a hard time cutting the boom out of the bass. I need more clarity and growl in the sound.

I put a hi pass filter on both tracks and have EQ boosted some of the mid-range. I have Waves plug-ins and tried, R Bass, MaxxBass, Ultramaximizer, R Compressor, T Racks, etc. I can get a great bass sound on it's own, but when blended in with the mix, all detail is lost. I don't want to boost anymore midrange and can't imagine cutting any more of the lows.

Oh, and I have also cut the lows on many of the other tracks in an effort to give the bass it's own place in the mix.

Any suggestions for more clarity in the bass guitar?

Thanks!

[waxman]

Try putting Rbass to the frequency of the song... for instance if you are in the key of A put Rbass at 110... D would be 146.83... don't let those bass enhancers get to low...

Then do a double low cut below 30hz... if you have a multi band comp limit the and squeeze. Set it so it will only limit so far...

Pump 500 and 1.3 k.... but do all this while the track is playing and don't monitor too loud if you can keep from it. Is you mixing room treated and tuned? Do you have a RTA? If your room has a bump in the low end it can be tough. You may want to get ARC unless your room is correct.

Getting the low end right is top essential. Start with your master at +3 or 4 and mix drums, Bass and the lead vocal only until it all sounds correct then start bringing in the other instruments around that. When you loose head room or the drums drop the master and put the drums back up. Leave the bass where it is until everything is in. As you put each instrument in if you start loosing the bass do a low cut on that instrument... one instrument at a time. Low cuts of 100 on as many instruments as possible if you don't hear a difference in the sound cut it at 200 until the filter starts to engage then back down about 25kz... hopefully it is something in the way of your bass sound. If it sounds good by itself chances are the drums and bass need to find space...

[Frodo]

Clarity in the bass guitar depends on the style of music being done. However, I agree with waxman about paying attention to the mid-range. This is something that is often overlooked in the 500hz range simply because it's "bass". There are important things that happen in the mid-range.

I would generally roll off everything below 100hz. For *most* playback systems, anything below 100hz will only get in the way-- unless you have an extremely accurate sub monitoring system. Otherwise, the net difference holds low end clarity and cleanliness hostage.

One thing I would recommend would be to locate a CD with mixes you really like that are similar to your track-- be it Soundgarden, Staind, Smokey Robinson, Sting, or Eugene Ormandy and the Philadelphia Orchestra. It's very important to understand why great recordings, great mixes, and great mastered mixes work the way they do. It might be worth investing in some metering analysis software to compare EQ curves of favored tracks vs our own.

FWIW-- this might be helpful in some way:

http://www.alexandermagazine.com/record ... 4/bass.htm

[XXF]

Thanks. I will try these suggestions. What is a double low cut? How do I determine the frequency of the song?

[newrigel]

Thanks. I will try these suggestions. What is a double low cut? How do I determine the frequency of the song?

By what key it's in... the A above middle C is 440 hz and so on...

[bongo_x]

Add distortion. You can either put it on one of the tracks or copy one and put it on that. Blend it to taste. The distortion adds some harmonics. You'll be surprised how much distortion you can put on and not hear it at all in the mix.

I like the DP Preamp plug a lot on bass. That's mostly what I use it for.

bb

[XXF]

Ah, I get the frequency thing. Thanks. I've used the DP Preamp and while I've had success with it before, somehow this time, it's not really helping. I think I have everything way too maxed out.

[Shooshie]

The best thing I learned to do for bass is to send it to an aux track, where I set up EQ and/or Waves C4 or Linear Phase Multiband (C5) processors to enhance it in a big, sub-bass sort of way. Then I blend the original bass with the new one. Through fader balance and automation you can keep that bass sound where you want it no matter what comes in above and around it. It's an old sound-guy trick at the FOH board, but it works just as well for studio purposes, too.

Shooshie

[daveyboy]

The hardest part about mixing bass is usually due to not being able to hear it correctly in your mixing environment due to an untreated room (ie, not enough bass trapping). I start with the master works eq with the analyzer engaged and usually end up doing a few subtractive eq moves to take away some of the offensive nodes that stick out. As Soshie mentioned, a multiband compressor can come in handy if the boomy parts are interment-int. You can pinpoint a frequency range and then compress it when it hits hard so you don't thin out the whole track all the time. I also check for sub bass issues but I try not to roll stuff off if I don't need to. I'll then use another eq for boosting, adding some presence (around 1k) and maybe some more bass if needed. If it's rock I'll use distortion. Lately I've been using Trash in multi band mode and just distorting the lower mid range stuff to give it more bite and clarity on little speakers. Finally I'll put a normal compressor on to tighten the whole thing up. It's hard to say what will work on your song without hearing it as there may be other things involved, and, as you said, other mix elements affect the bass. Put up a sample if you can.

[David Polich]

In order to increase the midrange and presence of a bass sound, there has to be some midrange and presence in the original sound to begin with. Otherwise, you're just adding noise.

Your monitors and room also are a huge factor. If you're room has
boomy nodes or standing waves, or your monitors are too close to a
wall, you're going to have problems determining where your bass sits.

Nine times out of ten, when I get complaints from people listening on
their laptops that they "can't hear the bass", they are not speaking of
bottom end. They are saying they can't hear the bass speak. That is
a function of midrange, primarily. The original bass sound has to have
some. In a bass guitar, this would be the "guitar" part of the sound. In
a synth bass, it would usually be sawtooth waves combined with a higher
filter cutoff, some filter resonance, and a "guitar" style filter shape.

If you have a growling, snappy electric bass to begin with, and it is
disappearing in the mix, it is competing with other instruments whose
clarity depends on the same timbral area as the bass (such as other
guitars). Since everything depends on everything else in the mix, be sure
to remove lower frequencies from other instruments to make room for the
bass. Most of the time, guitars can be rolled off at 200hz to 300hz without
losing anything. In fact, I routinely roll of starting at 100hz for most of
the instruments in a mix except bass and kick.

[Phil O]

In order to increase the midrange and presence of a bass sound, there has to be some midrange and presence in the original sound to begin with. Otherwise, you're just adding noise.

Agreed, and some of that has to do with the player. My son started to play bass at one point but quickly moved on to other things. His el cheapo Squire bass is in the studio now. There's this bass player who has done session work here for a number of years that uses it from time to time. It amazes me what a great sound he gets out of that piece of crap. Usually a little compression is all I need to get his tracks to sit just right in the mix, no matter what instrument he plays.

Phil

[Kubi]

You may simply have too much other stuff on top of it. Hard-pan and/or mute other elements. As for rolling off low-end, the bass is one of two tracks where in general I want the low end to stay (the kick being the other. And of course you have to make them play well together, i.e. through ducking.) But do roll off low end on everything else, i.e. keys, string pads and similar, endless sources of mud. Also (and especially) roll off lows on all reverb returns! Chunky rhythm guitars need to be carefully adjusted, to keep heft without getting in the way of the bass.

[Kubi]

Oh, and +1 on adding distortion. I regularly end up adding distortion to a surprising number of tracks, and some form of saturation (read, low-level distortion) on pretty much all.

[bjornln]

Just random thoughts on bass sound.....

I usually turn to a good pair of Headphones just to minimize the rooms effect on the sound. when I'm happy with the sound, off with the cans...

Here's a new favorite for bass sound...
Soundtoys Decapitator (it's in Beta right now, so ymmv)
(But be careful... it's a reason for its' name.. )


/B