Red lines after Adjust Beats?

[Yawnstrosity]

To aid in transcribing a piece of moderately rubato recorded music, I added it to a sequence, then manually inserted a beat on the downbeat of each measure. Then I went back to the Sequence editor and used Adjust Beats to line up the bars of the sequence to the beats, keeping the timing of the original intact. So far, so good.

Still, when I view the soundbite in the Sequence editor, in addition to my gray (aligned) beats, there are red lines. These are the barlines from the Sound File editor, where the barlines are *not* lined up with my beats.

In other words, though beats and barlines are aligned in the Sequence editor, they're not aligned in the Sound File editor. Is this just something I have to live with, or is there a way to turn if off or fix it? It's visually annoying, but not a huge deal. I am using DP 7.02.

Thanks in advance for any help!

[AleCerto]

Have you tried "Copy sequence tempo to soundbite" to the rubato sound file after adjusting beats?
When you import a Soundbite in a DP project it always maintains it's own original tempo map (even if there's no tempo map!).
I think this could solve the annoying red lines issue.
Hope this help.

[Tritonemusic]

In the DP5 User Guide, there is a chapter called "Tempos and Audio." I'm sure it's in DP7, too. It explains everything.

[Yawnstrosity]

Thanks, AleCerto. I tried this and it reduced the red lines, bringing them all much closer to my artificially created barlines. I'm guessing that the remaining offset is due to imperfections in my barline placement and the fact that the original had a continuously variable tempo whereas I have chopped the tempo changes into one-bar increments.

I guess I didn't think of taking this step before because I didn't want change the timing of the original audio. It appears that my adjustments are close enough that there is no audible difference

I spent plenty of time looking in the manual, in "Tempos and Audio" (pp. 667-672 in the DP7 manual, which is often my bedtime reading) and elsewhere, but it's not always too clear. I'm gradually beginning to understand how these deep features work.

[Tritonemusic]

I spent plenty of time looking in the manual, in "Tempos and Audio" (pp. 667-672 in the DP7 manual, which is often my bedtime reading) and elsewhere, but it's not always too clear.

Please share which part isn't clear and I'm sure it can be explained clearly for you.

[AleCerto]

Ciao Yawnstrosity,
I'm happy my suggestion helped (the red lines are really annoying).

I'm sorry but I stated a not so right thing about Soundbite tempo map: if the sound file does have a tempo map (i.e. recorded into another DP project) it carries its own map into the new project, otherwise it "takes" the tempo map from the DP project itself once the soundbite is imported (and it maintains this "first" tempo map even if you, after a while, change the project tempo structure).

During the last years I've done several Adjust Beats in various DP projects to line up live recordings, the very important things to remember are:
- as soon as imported the soundbite, in the Sound File Information window set "Time Compress/Expand" to "Don't time scale" (safety measure )
- Adjust Beats as much as you need/like to (be careful with "Measures/Beats/Fixed Duration" settings - in my own experience, if I'm working with "Measures" and then I use "Beats" in an already "adjusted" measure it very often messes all the things up, may be because I prefer to use "Apply adjusted beat's tempo until end of sequence")
- once you're satisfied by the new tempo map then apply "Copy sequence tempo to soundbite" (only to remove the red lines).

Since it's a manual human procedure (involving eyes, mouse movements and so on) it's a "natural thing" that you'll have a little offset in your final tempo map, and I've to say that's a good thing, too.
I mean, if you're going into deep in adjusting beats you'll often obtain an unnatural and mechanical developing of the tempo (it could be good for notation purposes only).

Anyway, the DP7 manual (like the other DP version manuals starting from DP2) is both very exhaustive and incomprehensible (too often sending back to a different chapter and so on), the only suggestion is: practice, practice, practice (making as many mistakes as possible ).

[Shooshie]

Just a note: If you keep "Preserve Original Performance" checked, you can adjust beats all night and never lose the feel of the original. This is not the same thing as quantizing. Instead of moving your music to a grid, Adjust Beats (with "preserve original..." checked) adjusts the Grid to Your Music!

I left a video tutorial on about page 5 of the Tips Sheet. The audio in the movie drifts slowly away from the video (even after several fixes that lined it back up), but if you adjust your perception it doesn't make a big difference. Watching the video might make a difference, though. I recommend at least taking a peek, though I don't remember if I made any notes about the red lines. Red lines in correctly aligned tracks are just a sign that the rest of the sequence needs to be aligned with your new "correct" track.

Shooshie

[Yawnstrosity]

Thanks for your responses. Shooshie, I watched your movie, and it was very instructive. My purpose with this project was to take a piece from a CD and put it in a sequence, then transcribe its parts as MIDI tracks. As I mentioned, the piece was rubato and I wanted to mark approximate barlines as an aid to transcription, so I could more easily discern patterns, and also so that I could quantize the MIDI tracks after finishing my transcription. I think I've got it sorted out now. I think in the end it all comes down to the sometimes tedious legwork of marking beats as accurately as possible. The remaining red lines in my project are all very close to the barlines I marked. Does this mean that I need to adjust those beats again? Or that I need to adjust the barlines in the sequence again? I'm not certain.

I agree, AleCerto, that the DP manual is often frustrating because it keeps bouncing you to other chapters/sections. Like you, I can only really learn by doing. However, it's great to have a printed manual. Version 7 has made me fall in love with DP all over again.

Off topic, I'm curious, Shooshie-- you said in your movie that the piece in question was recorded live in concert. Was it performed on a piano that had a MIDI interface, or was it performed on a MIDI controller? It doesn't seem like the type of music that would be performed on an electronic instrument.

[Shooshie]

Off topic, I'm curious, Shooshie-- you said in your movie that the piece in question was recorded live in concert. Was it performed on a piano that had a MIDI interface, or was it performed on a MIDI controller? It doesn't seem like the type of music that would be performed on an electronic instrument.

Yamaha Disklavier: 7 foot grand.

It was a difficult show to describe. We had 5 pianos on stage; the artist played one. The rest were MIDI arrangements, but acted as an orchestra would. He played some numbers solo, such as the one you heard in the example in the movie (only it was about 10 minutes long). I would sometimes record his live performances, just so we could make audio recordings later. He played his best in front of an audience, which was why it was desirable to capture the performances, then record them in the studio. The Disklavier can do this more accurately than any player piano prior to it. There may be better ones now; I wouldn't know.

Here is a story about it in Keyboard Magazine, before we took it on tour. We toured the country many times, playing both coasts, and from the Great Lakes to the Gulf of Mexico. It was a very unusual show, and we always played to SRO or nearly sold-out houses. Unfortunately, Ariel died a couple of years ago.

Shoosh

[edit: oops. forgot the link. it's there now]
[edit #2: Misspelled Edit]

[Yawnstrosity]

Shooshie--Very interesting. It's a lovely piece, and a fine performance.