Uses For Old G5 in my Studio

[Rainman]

I'm going to be updating my computer soon and was wondering if there are any uses for my old G5 2x2 in my studio other than a door stop. My ultra-geek computer buddy said it would make a great server however he knows as much about recording/music as I know about servers, which is nothing at all, can't think of any reason I'd need one. Any suggestions?

Regards
Rainman

[Frodo]

I'm using my G5 2.5x2 as a VI host. It works well as a sidecar to my MacPro. I can actually load more sounds in it as a standstill VI host than I could if I were recording and playing back with it.

For a long time, I was using MIDI and audio interfaces to connect the two machines, but recently was able to get Vienna Ensemble Pro installed which, to my surprise, works very well shuttling audio and MIDI over a single LAN cable.

I haven't dismantled my MIDI and audio interfaces just yet because some third-party products await upgrades of Vienna Ensemble to work with them. PLAY is among those libraries which are not compatible with VE at this time, but I hear they are working on it. I should say that I have not checked on the updates in a couple of weeks, so I'm not sure if they've fixed it or not.

In any case, there are other options for connectivity. On the software side, there is Bidule. Happily, there is also DP itself as a VI host. A USB MIDI interface works well, but MOL (MIDI Over Lan) is a utility from MusicLabs seems to be getting a lot of use these days. Unlike VE Pro, MOL only shuttles MIDI data, but not audio and MIDI together.

For audio, you will need a dedicated interface to port audio in discrete channels. Otherwise, Built-In Audio will at least get you started. By the time I bought my MacPro, added hard drives, and upped the RAM, I was momentarily tapped out of funds. Taking the Built-In Audio out of the G5 into the interface on my MacPro enabled me to work until such time a better solution for an audio interface could be purchased.

Using your G5 as a VI host works very well.

[Rainman]

Thanks Frodo
That sounds more like it and while I don't expect you to tell me how to go about setting it all up, could you (or anyone else) point me in the direction of getting more info.

Regards
Rainman

[David Polich]

There is no mystery to it - it's very old school.

You need -
1. An audio/MIDI interface for the G5.
2. Audio cables routed from the interface's outs to inputs on
your main Mac's interface (or into a hardware mixer if you are
using one).
3. A MIDI cable going from the MIDI out of your main Mac's MIDI
interface to the MIDI in on the G5's MIDI interface.
4. Some kind of VI host for the G5. Even DP on the G5 will work.

Basically, you treat the G5 like it was another hardware synth
with MIDI ins and outs. VI's that need to sync to MIDI clock (such
as Stylus RMX, or any of the big drum VI's like BFD2) should
be installed on your Main Mac. VI's that don't need to see MIDI clock, like
any orchestral VI's, piano VI's, straight-ahead analog synths, etc., can go on the G5.

[Rainman]

Thanks David
I agree, seems pretty straight forward and I'd only need an additional MIDI interface by the looks of it. One question remains, although I've never used it Kontakt has some tempo syncing, I suppose that should be a consideration in terms of having it either on the VI Mac or the main Mac.

Thanks Again
Rainman

[cloudsplitter]

I would suggest setting a nice house plant on it..!!

[Frodo]

Thanks David
I agree, seems pretty straight forward and I'd only need an additional MIDI interface by the looks of it. One question remains, although I've never used it Kontakt has some tempo syncing, I suppose that should be a consideration in terms of having it either on the VI Mac or the main Mac.

Thanks Again
Rainman

I would put any sync-critical software on the main machine. Save the G5 for straight-up VI streaming.

That sounds more like it and while I don't expect you to tell me how to go about setting it all up, could you (or anyone else) point me in the direction of getting more info.

Somewhere deep in this site is a detailed how-to with setting DP on the G5 as VI host and how to route everything in/out of the main machine also using DP as a master. I'll see if I can find it-- but let me just say that it only LOOKS more involved than it really is.

[Frodo]

Here's a written account from one thread--- but there was another thread on this as well. Still looking...

The notes here were from a different time-- my essential hardware has changed since then, but the principles are the same. Hope this helps.

******

For audio, I have a PCIx-424 and a 2408mk2 on the second computer. These are connected via ADAT to a PCIe-424/2408mk3 on my main computer.

For the second computer, I would think that any firewire interface with connections that support those on your main computer would work equally as well.

People have frowned upon using a DAW like DP for VI hosting, but I've found it to be just fine and a lot less trouble than third party hosting utilities.

Second Computer: DP host setup tips:

Before you begin, make sure that the AUDIO-MIDI setup on both computers shows all hardware and network configs so that they will show up in DP as routing options.

1. Set up a VI and a series of MIDI tracks.
2. Set the OUPUT of the VI (audio) to your desired output-- in my case, ADAT-A (choosing a pair: 1-2, 3-4, 5-6, 7-8 )
3. On the first MIDI track's INPUT, set it to your main computer's MIDI port-- in my case my 2-port Fastlane is connected to my MTPAV's ports 5 and 6. For this excercise my first VI MIDI channel is set to MPTAV Port 5-1.
4. Set the MIDI track's OUTPUT to its corresponding VI. In my case it's Kontakt 2 running EWQLSO instruments.
5. Continue loading instruments into your VI with corresponding MIDI tracks as mentioned above.
6. IMPORTANT: from DP's Setup Menu, make sure MULTIRECORD and MIDI PATCH THRU are selected, and then put all MIDI tracks in record-ready mode (all red record indicators active). This will allow for each instrument to playback.


First Computer: DP master setup Tips:

There are two sets of audio and MIDI setups-- one for sending/receiving audio and MIDI from the second computer, and one for running VIs on the main computer as one would normally do.

To send/receive audio and MIDI from the second computer:

1. Set up a series of MIDI tracks that match those on your second computer. In my case, my second computer is running EWQLSO Winds: picc, flute solo, flutes, oboe solo, oboes, english horn, clarinet solo, clarinets, bass clarinet, bassoons, contrabassoons. The MIDI tracks on your main computer should match these-- and it's best to keep both sets on both computers in the same order with the same track names for easier workflow. It's otherwise very easy to get confused.

2. The MIDI OUTPUT for these tracks should be the name of your second computer's MIDI device. In my case it's Fastlane Port 1-1, Fastlane Port 1-2, etc... If you are using a LAN connection, your choices will reflect the routings made in your MIDI Network Utility.

3. If you are using ADAT as your audio connection, you will need to add audio tracks on your main computer. In my case, I have 4 audio tracks named G5 Audio 1, G5 Audio 2, G5 Audio 3, G5 Audio 4 to reflect the fact that there will be 4 stereo audio streams coming from my second computer, which is a G5 sending via ADAT (see step 2 for the second computer above). This is part of a template, so the names of these tracks can be changed for different projects.

4. Make sure these tracks are on INPUT, meaning that the MON column with the little blue speaker is active.

5. To run VIs on your main computer, you just do it like you'd normally would.

6. You probably don't want to have Multi Channel Record active on your main computer, but MIDI Patch Thru is a good idea (Studio Menu).

The nice thing about this is that the second computer just sits there and never actually runs via its own transport. It just works like an outboard MIDI module. There's no need to sync the transports on the two computers. Latency is practically zero, and playback locks like a charm.

For clock safety, I have my MTPAV and both 2408s connected via a BNC hub-- in this case it happens to be a Genx96 word clock box. This may not be necessary if you are using network MIDI, but I would connect any audio interfaces via BNC-- master interface word clock OUT to second computer interface word clock IN.

It takes a little doing, and typing in track names gets tedious, but dedicate a weekend just to get everything setup and running-- and make templates so that you won't have to start from scratch. Once you get it set up, it's just a matter booting DP on both computers as usual.

For my second computer, I've set DP's startup options to boot with "Last File Opened". This cuts down on boot up time and menu searching. That particular computer always runs my EWQLSO Winds and Percussion, and I rarely have a need to change the template. For less standard projects this may not be a good idea, but an orchestra is a lot more predictable from project to project.

Should you happen to work on a project using just your main computer and you happen to have one of these templates open on your main computer, be sure to turn off the audio tracks that accept sound from the second computer. Otherwise, you'll get an awful noise if the second audio interface is turned off.

[Rainman]

Frodo, you are the man and I thank you. I'm sure you have other more important things to do however. All the same, much appreciated.

Rainman

[Rainman]

I guess I should add that if this doesn't work out I can always take cloudsplitters suggestion.

Regards

[p.pan]

Hi,

What is your buffer size on the two computers???

And also on your G5 where you put the VIs your studio setting can be small, like 4 stereo tracks and 4 busses????

I just want to do it the inverse of Frodo.

I am interress to update my system with DP7.
* G5 with DP7 my main Daw (Because I have UAd1 inside), Powercore firewire,828MKII,
MIDI express 128.
* Macpro with all VIs (SD 2,Complete6,Omnisphere) + Dp7 (Just a platform for the VIs) ,
Konnekt 24D, Fast lane MIDI.

Do I need to have on the two machines X.5.8??
Do I need to have another MIDI interface for the Macpro??? (To have more MIDI ports)

Thanks and sorry for my bad english

[Frodo]

Hi,

What is your buffer size on the two computers???

Main computer (MacPro) 64-128. G5 128-256, both depending upon project size. It also depends on your audio interface. My particular interface has discreet channels for audio in and audio out, so DP on my MacPro only offers a high buffer of 512. This would therefore be the same as a high buffer of 1024 on most other interfaces. It's kind of complicated to explain, actually.

Suffice it to say that your main computer is not taxed too much more than normal because you are only accepting audio inputs. Your slave computer is taxed less than it would be were you actually using DP to record and playback audio or virtual instruments because the computer just sits there hosting VIs without having to sync anything. The only thing that would slow down your G5 would be a poorly thought-out VI installation where demanding VIs would tax a single hard drive more than necessary.

It would take an awful lot of automation to bring either machine to their knees. I've done large orchestral projects with lots of automation using VSL and it worked like a charm.

And also on your G5 where you put the VIs your studio setting can be small, like 4 stereo tracks and 4 busses????

I just want to do it the inverse of Frodo.

I am interress to update my system with DP7.
* G5 with DP7 my main Daw (Because I have UAd1 inside), Powercore firewire,828MKII,
MIDI express 128.
* Macpro with all VIs (SD 2,Complete6,Omnisphere) + Dp7 (Just a platform for the VIs) ,
Konnekt 24D, Fast lane MIDI.

Here's a photo of my MacPro setup with the G5 running. Please note the audio and MIDI tracks dedicated to the G5 MIDI and audio input.

For MIDI:
G5 MIDI Port 1-1
G5 MIDI Port 1-2
G5 MIDI Port 1-3
G5 MIDI Port 1-4
G5 MIDI Port 1-5
G5 MIDI Port 2-1
G5 MIDI Port 2-2
G5 MIDI Port 2-3
G5 MIDI Port 2-4
G5 MIDI Port 2-5

For Audio:

M1 STR 1-2
M1 STR 3-4
M1 STR 5-6
M1 STR 7-8
M1 STR 9-10
M1 STR 11-12
M1 STR 13-14
M1 STR 15-16

The M1 is simply the protocol my SSL interface driver uses. The STR stands for "stereo". Basically, I have 8 stereo audio inputs routed into my MacPro from my G5 slave.


With that said, one single Fastlane offers 32 channels of MIDI, of which I'm only using 10. My audio interface from my G5 offers 24 channels of connectivity, of which I'm only using 16 (8 x stereo). My SSL audio face takes 64 channels of audio!

My audio interface on my MacPro will accept 64 channels of audio, and my MIDI interface on the MacPro will take 8x16.

Do I need to have on the two machines X.5.8??

No, you do not. My G5 is currently running 10.4.11. My MacPro runs 10.4.11, 10.5.8, and 10.6.2.

Do I need to have another MIDI interface for the Macpro??? (To have more MIDI ports)

Thanks and sorry for my bad english

No need to apologize.

If you use all hardware, then the answer is yes. You need a second MIDI interface which will accommodate all the MIDI channels you need.

One thing I use is Vienna Ensemble Pro, which is a host for both VIs and FX plugins. Not all are compatible at this time, but most are. PLAY is among those that is not compatible. Most other third-party Audio Units are working just fine. Vienna Ensemble Pro enables me to connect both machines with one ethernet cable with virtually unlimited audio AND MIDI channels over the same single cable. It works amazingly well.

[p.pan]

MERCI.

For your answer.

I plan to buy:
DP7 Update
Complete 6
Omnisphere

My future configuration is:
G5, X.4.11, DP7.02 with UAD1, Powercore firewire, 828MKII, MIDI express 128.
Mach5 1.2 (In case there is not UB), Styllus RMX and EZDrummer.
Buffer Size 1024, 24Bits, 44K.

Macpro, X.5.8, DP7.02, Konnekt 24D, Fast lane.
Complete 6, SDrummer, Omisphere, Ethno.
Buffer size he depend Really tight I can go on 32 on the TC and the same 24Bits, 44K.

I link the My 3 MIDI in of the mac pro (2 From the fast lane and one from the TC Total 3 x 16 channels) to the MIDI express 128.

And for the audio I go out from the TC (In ADAT) to the 828MKII.
I Have maximum 4 stereo out.
Do I Need a world clock??? between the TC and the 828MKII???
Because on the TC there is not.

Correct me if I am wrong.




Defenetly I think the answer is VE pro.
If I buy on internet the download is big???


AND THANKS AGAIN

[Frodo]

MERCI.

Mon plaisir!

And for the audio I go out from the TC (In ADAT) to the 828MKII.
I Have maximum 4 stereo out.
Do I Need a world clock??? between the TC and the 828MKII???
Because on the TC there is not.

Correct me if I am wrong.

Setting DP's Hardware Setup dialog to clock from ADAT should work just fine. Different systems work differently and always possible to predict if a word clock device would be needed. I still think that your need for an external word clock should be slim.

Defenetly I think the answer is VE pro.
If I buy on internet the download is big???


AND THANKS AGAIN

Yes-- VE Pro is great. One other feature besides the audio and MIDI over a single ethernet cable is that it is now possible to do offline bouncing from your second machine. Before I got VE Pro, I had to first bounce all of my instruments running on my second machine to audio tracks on my main machine in real time before I could finish the mixing.

I'm not 100% sure, but I believe it was in the 800MB range. It's hard to remember because I'm not on my studio computer right now and also have VE1, VE2, and VE3 as well. I'll see if I can find the file size of VE Pro a little later.

[p.pan]

Merci encore Frodo.

I come on Motunation every day for reading Infos advices.....
AND GUYS CONGRATULATION TO MOTUNATION.

But I think I buy VE Pro.
I live In Namibia and the Download here.....Long.

If you can tell me the size of the download I can organise to do it proper.

Merci